CrossCountry mk3 2nd class coaches

[JR_P]

Dapol,

On your recently deprecated website, under the products section you had a 'Q and A' where someone had requested a further batch of CrossCountry mk3 2nd class.... Dapol had responded that they were 'on the cards' soon-ish - I think the comment and reply was dated circa September 2014.... anyway, on the strength of that I purchased the CrossCountry HST bookset & the additional 1st class coach.... and more recently the TGS....

.... however, i'm *STILL* waiting for the additional run of 2nd class coaches and I'm still several 2nd class coaches short of a full rake!!!

Now, as I see it Dapol, you are almost morally obligated to produce the additional run of 2nd class coaches in CrossCountry, having stated on your website that you were going to.

At best, you've created a black market on flea-bay where (if they get listed) said coaches sell for ~ £40 - about twice the RRP. But worst of all, there are plenty of people out there like me with incomplete rakes (the price on flea-bay illustrates that) and it annoys me that your 'Q and A' might have been leading me up the garden path and I parted with hard-earned money with no chance of completing a full rake.

As an aside, the same situation exists for the FGW mk3 buffet - that goes on flea-bay for £50 - £60 - that is more than two times the RRP....

It would be nice if you could clarify Dapol's official position on both the CrossCountry 2nd class coach and also the FGW buffet - thanks very much.

As I see it, there is market appetite for them - the black market price clearly indicates this....

Cheers, JR

[Joel Dapol]

The problem we have is that the Cross Country coaches were relatively poor sellers. We had 2nd class versions (NC227B) in stock from September 2012 and sold the last of the batch in December 2014. The same goes for the FGW buffet (NC216H), these were in stock from June 2013 and we sold the last in February 2015. This would indicate that demand is actually quite low. Saying all that we do appreciate it that modellers do require to complete their rakes and we will produce more CC and FGW coaches, but these will have to be produced in conjunction with other mk3 coaches when required and this makes pinning a time scale on when quite difficult. I would say at this point early 2017 is likely. I hope this helps and clarifies our position.

[JR_P]

Hi Joel,

Thanks for the response - great news that you *DO* intend on producing a further run of said coaches :-) 

I understand that you work on batch production so would be done in conjunction with other liveries, so therefore require a 'critical mass' to make the batch run worth while.... I reckon I can probably wait until early 2017.... ;-)

[Jon1317]

Will be great to have a FGW buffet, as the ebay prices are simply to high. Perhaps there is the opportunity now to produce the correct style buffet in both the wavy line FGW and new Green FGW livery
Jon

[robert shrives]

Hi , A while back there was some forum excitement about lack of FGW buffetcars as major sellers had runout, however a quick trawl of local shops in west midlands I found and sorted out several for N gauge forum members. It might be worthwhile checking local shops and see what is still lurking...
Robert

[JR_P]

Hi Robert,

You might be surprised to hear that I live in London and you would have thought there would be plenty of model shops around, right....?

.... well, unfortunately, not really :-( !

.... my nearest is either Janes Trains (Tooting), or Addlestone Model Centre.... both have a modest, but not massive selection; basically once an item is gone from either of those it becomes impractical, otherwise I literally have to spend a whole Saturday 'making a day of it' just to go to the next nearest model shop, which in practical terms is really GaugeMaster in West Sussex(!), just by virtue of the fact its at the train station and I can get there really quickly (when Southern aren't striking).

Also, once you factor in the Oyster fare, or train fare, the ~£4 postage from most online retailers, plus the convenience of getting delivered to my work place, outweighs the cost and inconvenience of going to a model shop - sad, but true i'm afraid. I do miss the 'experience' of going to the local model shop like I used to as a kid.

I'd say 99% of my train buying is done online - if Google can't find it, I can't buy it :-(

Cheers, JR

[Vonzack]

I'd like to finish off my East Midlands set, I don't think the additional 1st was ever produced.

Would really love to see some other liveries released as full HST sets as well, GNER, East Coast and VTEC for us poorer ECML modellers.

Cheers, Mark.

[Joel Dapol]

I like this idea very much.

[JR_P]

Agree that there is a massive black hole at the moment with a whole decade of ECML TOCs 'missing in action' - probably dovetails nicely into other posts on other threads elsewhere on this forum with requests for Class 91+DVT+mk4....

[VoyagerBen]

I would definitely buy EMT 1st Class coaches, and a East Coast and VTEC complete HST.

[DavidInYork]

A suggestion - perhaps if you produce some more EMT ones you could produce replacements for the two in the bookset, as they are missing the East Midlands Trains branding?

I also agree with the suggestion above about East Coast post-privatisation liveries. Perhaps some more Grand Central ones might also be a possibility? The prices which the Mk3s are going for on Ebay suggests there is a demand, and as with EMT there has only ever been one TF produced (that being the one in the book set). GC sets are normally six trailers with a TF at each end, one of them being declassified.

Finally, how about a set of the surviving prototype HST power car in its current form, with its three matching Mk3s (which are production versions, painted in the prototype livery).

[VoyagerBen]

How about re-releasing the full EMT bookset? Coaches should have EMT branding and the powercars need the EMT logo correcting...the font used for the word 'Trains' is incorrect. I'd buy a new and corrected bookset.

I would buy more Grand Central coaches too.

[Sammo]

For those of us modelling the East Coast we are also still waiting on the MK3 Eastern Region - Blue Grey Buffet which I thought was supposed to be released alongside the Western region and loco hauled options, do you have any indication if/when these might be available so we can complete our sets?

Thanks
Mark

[Joel Dapol]

I have no idea why these were not ordered at the same time as the Western Region versions and I can only apologise. We are compiling a Mk3 coach order presently and these will form part of it. Normal lead times for re-runs with a number change are around 4-6 months.

[Sammo]

Any further update on the Mk3 Order guys? Still compiling or has the list been sent?

[baister1]

Are there any plans to release any more coaches for the East Midland Trains HST set? I have all of those you have done to date but the rake is still too short.

[Joel Dapol]

Yes we will release some more.

[JR_P]

baister1 if you check out the thread I started (CrossCountry mk3 2nd class coaches), there are a couple of others who've also pointed out the 'missing' EMT HST coach - sounds like Dapol are onto this, or at least now aware....

[Andy Dapol]

(For tidyness, I've moved this thread to Mk3 coaches.)
Regarding EMT liveries, thanks to those who pointed this out. As Joel states above, we are aware and have plans to fill this void.
One thing worth mentioning is the issue with the font, this was raised when the TGS was released. It's quite difficult to correct an error which was made some-while back, especially when releasing an add-on to an existing set. We are planning to correct the font error with the next book set, at the risk lighting the blue touchpaper, what are your feelings regarding further issues of 'incorrect' font EMT coaches?

[VoyagerBen]

Hi Andy,

Thank-you for discussing this issue. I like the sound of a new 'corrected' EMT bookset, with the addition of correct EMT logos on the coaches and correction of the logo font on the power cars. I will buy one of these :-)

I just wanted to point out that not all of the EMT MK3 coaches you have released have the 'incorrect' font for the word 'Trains'

These are correct:
NC-226A MK3 2nd Class Coach 42384
NC-227A MK3 2nd Class Coach 42341
NC-216K MK3 Coach Buffer 40728

This is incorrect:
2P-005-760 MK3 TGS 2nd Class Coach 44073

If you were to release new coaches, such as 1st Class, I personally would like them with the 'correct' font as all the coaches except the TGS that I run, are good.

Kind regards,
Ben.

[chriswrightmk]

It will be good to have Mk3 coaches to complete rakes. Several companies like East coast and Anglia to do and new FGW green ones
Chiltern livery for Class 68 may be good but were modified
Network Rail livery ones too 977994 and 3 seem to be TGS and 977984 may be a former restaurant car.

[woodbury22uk]

Chiltern have one set which has the original doors and without a buffet car. It is used mainly as a commuter set between Banbury and Marylebone. It has recently received a Livery similar to the other silver Mainline coaches.

[chriswrightmk]

Manchester Pullman used Mk3 1st coaches in Exec livery with Pullman logo and names like Sir Stanley Matthews, John Lennon, Thomas Brassey, Arkwright, Emmeline Pankhurst, Barbriolli, LS Lowry, Willian Ewart, Gladstone, Elizabeth Gaskell, I have publicity leaflet which go in a set.

[Scruff]

Yes please for the pullman mk3 coaches.. As well as correct Executive livery loco hauled Mk3's

An Executive livery first and second class without buffers (HST) would be good and enable a full rake to be made up of individual coaches as only 6 executive HST mk3's have been released so far. 1 first, Buffet, 3 second and TGS.

ScotRail livery would be good too...

Cheers
Mark

[JR_P]

Neil Dapol - hi Dapol, just wondered, since you have announced new running numbers and/or livery releases for class 67, 86 & 153, whether you'd be making any such similar announcement for the mk3 coaching stock....?

[Joel Dapol]

Yes we will be doing in the next week or two (Neil is on holiday this week)

[JR_P]

Awesome - thanks!.... just make sure my Cross-Country 2nd class is on the list... ;-) !

[DavidInYork]

The real XC coaches will be getting power doors soon - seems that it will be sliding doors (something like a Class 156) rather than plug doors like Chiltern. Two TSOs were taken to Wabtec in Doncaster a couple of weeks ago, so these are probably the first for treatment. The HSTs going to Scotrail will probably have the same doors, so perhaps a possibility for future models? For full accuracy, it's complicated by the fact that over half of XCs MK3s are conversions from loco-hauled (Mk3a) coaches, and all of their five sets include both original HST trailers and loco-hauled conversions.

[Joel Dapol]

Complicated and I guess some compromise is inevitable.

[geoffc]

I would liked to have Night Riviera stock released in either FGW Dynamic Lines or GWR Green. Having done some research I dont think this would be viable. Apart from the TSO all have major differences.

The differences on the SLEP
The windows are completely different on both sides.
It has one roof vent.
It has buffers

The differences on the BFO :
All doors are pink or silver.
On one side the small window by the guards compartment does not exist.
On the other side the small window is replaced by two large windows spaced differently to the rest.
It has two built in tail lights.
It has buffers.

The differences on the TSO
The interior is in a 2+1 configuration
There are no roof vents
It has buffers

The differences on the RUB
Larger windows on the counter side
Toilet window on the opposite end on the other side.
It has buffers.

A good source of reference is
https://shed83a.smugmug.com
http://www.dawlishtrains.com/
http://www.railphotoanthology.weebly.com.
The later has several shots of all of the types of rooves of the set.

So it looks as though I will have to do a cut and shut for the BFO and RUB, ignore the differences on the TSO and use vinyls for the SLEPs.

Over to you Joel and Andy

Geoff c

[JR_P]

geoffc I too would be keen for a full Night Rivera (in FGW for sure) - have a read of this thread (pg4 & 5), as there is already some discussion about the rather more obscure mk3s (& mk2s) that make up the present day sleeper trains:
http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/ind...92-in-n/page-4

[DavidInYork]

The TSO is a standard MK3a (it does have roof vents, but the smaller earlier ones, of which there are three spaced out across each end). If Dapol do the Mk3a roof moulding (a possibility which has been mentioned, then the tooling for a Mk3a FO would be correct (as the coaches have first-class interiors).

RFMs are complicated as there are three types, so it would be difficult to model all three.

The BFO is an unusual vehicle (there are only three of them), so probably unlikely to be produced.

The sleepers are, so far as I know, fairly standard examples of their types, so might be viable.