Maunsell Coaches - 2 new coaches

[PeteT]

Hi, Is there any update on the Lined Olive set 2P-012-253 or are they not going to be produced?

[Dorsetmike]

Rails of Sheffield show them as "coming soon" and preorders are being taken - I've got mine in! I did see a rumour quoting July.

[PeteT]

Any mention of which year Mik?

[Dorsetmike]

Well on 23 May Joel said about 5 weeks, so it must be a slower boat from China than usual, this Wednesday would be 7 weeks

[PeteT]

The latest issue of Hornby Magazine has a review of the three coach set in Southern lined green, so it may be this year after all. We can only hope.!

[Jeff Eastmond]

With the delivery of the latest tranche of Maunsells nearing completion, I have updated the 'Production and Application' table to include the new stock...

[Dorsetmike]

I see they have arrived - announced yesterday 19/07, our prayers have at last been answered!

[Jeff Eastmond]

Yes - just now got a 'your Picking List has been packed' email from Hattons (timed at 16:17 - why does it take over an hour for the email to get 150 miles?). If they have it in the post tonight then I should receive the parcel early next week

Worryingly, they list the number of the BCK as running number 6365 - hope this is a typo of their making...

[Pete33]

I see they have arrived - announced yesterday 19/07, our prayers have at last been answered!

My prayers mostly concern some different Drummond class locos, but this will do in the meantime

[Dorsetmike]

Strange the Dapol site shows the single coaches & 3 set in SR lined green as arrived, but neither Rails nor Hattons are showing the 3 set only the brake thirds and brake compo.

[Jeff Eastmond]

The 3-sets are listed on both Hattons and Rails website, the Rails one doesn't have an image, and the Hattons one shows the correct image but the description 'Dapol 2P-012-253 Pack of three Maunsell coaches - Set 394 - brake third, compartment third and compartment third in SR olive green'

[Dorsetmike]

I've entered 2P-012-253 in the Rails serch box and all I get is 2 blue LNER streaks

[Dorsetmike]

Finally showing at Rails but with no picture, wonder if they pack & post on Sundays?

[Dorsetmike]

Finally arrived this morning. A number of people on the N gauge forum commenting on lack of set numbers on the SR lined green set, I believe the sets in other liveries have the set numbers.

[Richard Dapol]

Hi, I am putting together numbering for the new high window Maunsell coaches which have recently been tooled and samples received. The following are my suggestions but please comment if you have other numbers and sets.
Set 456 6 comp BTK 4083 & 4084, CK 5172, FK 7398 &7399, TK 837 with loose vehicles TK 838, CK 5171 BTK 4085
Would appreciate which liveries should be made first.
Kind Regards to all, Richard

[Pete33]

Hi Richard

It's nice to hear that high window stock is coming our way. I can just about use that on my 1929/1930 layout.

A widely-available Excel spreadsheet of SR set formations shows the following for your choice of set and unit numbers:
Set 387, formed 1929, Ldn-Bog-Chich, BTK-CK-FK-FK-TK-BTK - 4085 5171 7398 7399 837 4086
Set 456, formed 1929, Ldn-Bog-Chich, BTK-CK-BTK - 4083 5172 4084

Not sure why that contradicts what you have for a 6-car set, but even a new Set 456 formation of 1963 only contained two cars, so it's not from that.

For my own use, a better set would be:
Set 459, formed 1929, Bmth-Birkenhead, BTK-TK-CK-Dining-CK-TK-BTK - 3666 840 5587 7940 5589 841 3667

Obviously you won't be doing the dining car, but that's still a nice 6-car set.

With the proliferation of independent 3D producers lately, it's quite possible that a dining car could be produced to fit on a Dapol chassis, so perhaps spare chassis could be made available for that...?

All the best
Peter

[Richard Dapol]

Hi Paul,
Thanks for your reply. Not sure why we differ on the set 456, according to an Illustrated history of Southern coaches by Mike King the coach numbers I mentioned are correct.
What period and decoration would you suggest for your set 459.
Best Regards,
Richard

[Pete33]

Hi Robert

Mike King does support your Sets 387 and 456, but the small print shows that 456 was reduced to three vehicles by 1935 - which severely limits the scope of your six car set, and 387 always ran as three cars for its entire lifetime.

For my preferred Set 459, they would definitely need to be in SR olive green with the usual yellow lining please. At worst I could take your loose coaches - TK, CTK, and BTK - and renumber, but coaches have a lot of numbers to replace!

All the Best
Peter

[Jeff Eastmond]

Hello Richard,

Presumably the high-window stock you are producing are the initial batches which are effectively the low window stock with high-windows in the corridor side. One has to be careful as to which ones you do produce as a small external modification to the diagrams in 1932 would cause issues.

I have attached extracts from my spreadsheets which give the number ranges applicable to the coaches. The ones marked (DB) have a change to the ventilation bonnets over the lavatory windows - a minor, but noticeable change to your current designs, and best avoided.

Also attached is the original formations of set produced from this stock - a large proportion of which were originally intended to be 'loose' stock, some of which were drafted into sets some time into their service life.

Beware of the stock for 'Inter-Company' trains - the CKs for these services (both loose and in sets) had 3 first- and 4 third-class compartments (designated CK(A) on the spreadsheets), not the usual 4 first- and 3 third-; and the BTKs and BCKs were fitted with the smaller British Standard gangways for interoperability with GWR and LMS stock (at the brake end of the vehicle on BTKs and both ends on the BCKs), not the Southern-standard Pullman gangway. Unfortunately this includes Peter's set 459, which included 4-compartment BTKs not the 6-compartment ones...

Probably the most suitable sets for your production would be 3-sets 387 and 201; and 4-sets 193, 195, 426 and 429. The 4-sets had 2x CKs in between the BTKs, one of which was removed after a few years - if you produced a 4-car version then those who wished to model the 3-car variant would then have a spare loose CK.

Set 456 has been the subject of much additional investigation for me. King lists a 6-car formation, the one you quoted in your post. Gould, in his 'Maunsell's SR Steam Carriage Stock', lists 456 as a three set and notes it with set 387 and 'two loose FKs' [7398/99] as being on the Bognor services. I am minded to side with King, as if 456 was outshopped as a 3-set it would have been numbered either 386 or 388, not in the 'long-set' number range.

I would suggest producing a three-set BTK(6)-CK-BTK(6) and/or set 456 and some loose stock BTK, TK, CK and FK vehicles to start with, and when the BCK and 4-compartment BTK variants are available producing a two-set BTK(6)-BCK (179 or 200) and loose BTK(4) and BCK vehicles

I think duplicating the production sequence that you had with the low-window stock (SR Olive Green first, next BR(S) Green, then BR Crimson/Cream) will probably be the best way you can release the liveries.

Any further questions please contact me - I can't guarantee a quick reply as I am away for a few days but I'll do my best.

Regards

Jeff Eastmond

[Jeff Eastmond]

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[Richard Dapol]

Hi Jeff,
Thank you so much for your comments and lists, really excellent and very helpful. I need to digest this information and will post suggestions soon.
Best Regards,
Richard

[Richard Dapol]

Hi Jeff,
After reading through your extensive document for which I thank you, the first run will be in Lined Olive and we plan to produce the following models:-
4-coach set number 193
6-coach set number 456
BTK(6) number 3730
CK number 5635
FK number 7228
TK number 1122
I do have a question though regarding the sets, I assume they have the set number printed on the BTK ends.
Thank you again for your help and do you have any comments?
Best Regards,
Richard

[Jeff Eastmond]

Hello Richard, sorry to be revisiting this after a period, but I have just noticed an error in your proposed product list - BTK 3730 is not a BTK(6). This appears to be a victim of a mass replacement in my spreadsheet as I swear it was correct earlier... Possibly you could do BTK(6) 3733 instead and look to including its partner BCK 6674 when the BTK(4) and BCKs are produced?

Apologies for the confusion and a corrected spreadsheet has been uploaded.

EDIT: In answer to your question, yes, the sets did have the appropriate numbers included on the outside ends of the BTKs.

[Jeff Eastmond]

Hello Richard,

Sorry for not getting back sooner as I was on the road on Friday and at Alexandra Palace on Saturday - I did ask for you on the Dapol stand, sorry I missed you.

That production list looks good to me, and yes the BTKs did have the set numbers painted on the end.

The EPs I saw in the cabinet at Ally Pally looked excellent, I look forward to getting the finished product on the layout (but my CC isn't)...

Regards Jeff