BR Crimson and Cream Maunsells

[Andy Dapol]

We have progressed to pre-production with the BR Maunsells and are currently pending production dates.

[Southernlad86]

Looking good :-D

[Jeff Eastmond]

Why has the Brake third got First Class stickers on the innermost large corridor windows?

[Joel Dapol]

Thanks Jeff for your keen observation. I think this is a case of the graphic artist cutting and pasting. Thankfully, as this is first deco sample, we have an opportunity to correct it. Thanks again.

[Jeff Eastmond]

These First Class stickers also appeared on the first batch of BR(S) Green Brake Thirds - they were easy to remove with the end of a cocktail stick, but this still left the 'No Smoking' stickers on the fourth and fifth compartments instead of the usual two inner ones.

[Bob G]

I am really looking forward to these. is the crimson strip above the windows too thick (or the cream band too narrow?). It just looks a tad overpowering in crimson that's all.
I'm struggling to find any photos of these coaches in crimson and cream to support my theory, but if anyone can help (I can only seem to find BR Mk 1 coaches in crimson cream on the Southern. I know they repainted the Bullied coaches in green as soon as they were able to, well ahead of crimson cream Mk 1s, and they may have done that for the Maunsells too.

[Jeff Eastmond]

The early application of Crimson/Cream to the 'low window' Maunsells was indeed as the samples above show. The samples also have the correct application of the running number (with no 'S' suffix) on the left end of the coach side which was the original position specified in the Crimson/Cream painting scheme.

Later C/C repaints which had the revised specification with numbers applied at the conventional right end of the side, the Crimson band above the window was reduced to match the band on other stock - particularly the Bulleids and Mark 1s, as there is not very much room to put a band on the corridor side of the 'high window' Maunsells...

EDIT: Looking at photos in my 'The Southern Way' series of books, the later C/C repaints on the 'high-window' stock omitted the above window band entirely, and the incidence of the narrower band on the 'low window' stock seemed to depend on whether the vehicle or set would run regularly with 'high window' stock.

[Bob G]

Jeff
That's exactly as I remembered they should be. I knew I had seen differently, so thanks for the research.

[Jeff Eastmond]

Just had another look at the decoration samples in the OP and noticed that the ‘Brake Third’ (with the first class labels) is numbered S4481.

4481 (and 4482) were D.2251 Brake Seconds (for the Newhaven Boat service). The D.2251 BSKs were identical to the D.2102 6-compartment BTKs but had three-a-side seating in the compartments, instead of 4-a-side on the BTKs. The BSKs were downrated to BTK in 1954 and renumbered 2772/2773.

If you're going to produce a BSK then there needs to be ‘2’ (second class) labels on the doors.

[gerry9253]

Would you please consider releasing '3' sets?

Thanks

Gerry

[Edward Sissling]

Will the Passenger Brake Van be appearing in BR plain Crimson livery anytime soon please?

Edward S

[Richard Dapol]

Hi Edward,
Yes, we shall be planning to produce the PBV in Crimson later next year

[Jeff Eastmond]

But with a Southern number, please. The previous crimson CCTs with a Midland number were a bit fictitious...

[Jeff Eastmond]

Just seen the pre-order details on the Hattons website - if the 'Brake Thirds' 2P-012-651 and -652 are numbered as such then that is incorrect. S4481 and S4482 were Brake Seconds for the Newhaven Boat service. They did become Brake Thirds in 1954 when they were downrated, but they were then renumbered (2772/73) and by then would have had the later version of the C/C livery with the narrower upper Crimson stripe.

[Jeff Eastmond]

Going from the Hattons site, the following coaches appear to be being produced
2P-012-600 FK S7669 Newhaven boat stock
2P-012-601 FK S7670 Newhaven boat stock
2P-012-651 BTK S4481 see comments in OP
2P-012-652 BTK S4482 see comments in OP
2P-012-700 SK S2352 Newhaven boat stock
2P-012-701 SK S2353 Newhaven boat stock
2P-012-751 CK S5148 3-set 446
2P-012-752 CK S5142 3-set 397

I have omitted the suffix 'S' as the coaches in the early Crimson/Cream with the left-hand numbers wouldn't have had them. It is only later in the C/C period when numbers were being put on the 'normal' right-hand position and Mark 1s were becoming numerous enough to cause numbering clashes that the suffixes were applied.

See the table in this post for a list of all the low-window R4 Maunsells: https://digest.dapol.co.uk/forum/n-g...?p=798#post798

[Chris Newman]

Hi Jeff, It Seems That reading my latest Kernow Newsletter That CK 2P-012-751 is actually S5148, also on the Dapol Shop Site--so confirming that!!--however Hattons still show S5141S--Have e-mailed them for confirmation--but I also believe that all their numberings are wrong as they all have "S" suffix. Have Just heard back from Hattons--They will amend/correct their Website to match Dapol's website. (common sense prevails--Hurrah!!)
Chris

[Jeff Eastmond]

Thanks Chris - my post duly amended.

[Bob G]

Wow Jeff.

I must have missed the spreadsheet. Very useful indeed. Could you send it to me via the NGS Helpline email address please?
Seems like I've got a good reason to build my Worsley Works Booster and run a boat train.
Would a former Farish wooden sided Pullman serve as a boat train Pullman coach, even temporarily? - I mean before Dapol bring one out

Regards and many thanks for all your help.
Bob

[Jeff Eastmond]

Spreadsheet sent - enjoy!

The Farish Kitchen Pullman is about the only choice at the moment.

I've had a pair (representing a Pullman Kitchen First and Saloon Third) between FK 7666 and TK 2349 and one (representing a Pullman Kitchen First) between FK 7671 and TK 2354 of my lined Olive sets 469/470 and they look a bit odd and susceptible to uncoupling on uneven track but hopefully that situation may change - please Dapol?

Later they used a Pullman Kitchen Composite (an older Kitchen First with a partitioned-off and downgraded section for the Third Class seating) as in the set list on the spreadsheet.

[Bob G]

The Liverpool emporium just emptied my bank for a rake of these, so they are getting to the shops now. Cant wait to get these. To think when I started in N gauge in 1971, we had generic main line and suburban 57' coaches which nearly looked like Maunsells but not quite! They used to be under £1 then, and Minitrix Mk 1s were 96p to £1-01. We would go miles to save 5p then. Probably in a car that only did 25 mpg too.

The old Farish coaches were unique then in British N gauge in having interiors, something the continental modellers always seemed to have had.

The wait of 45 years has been worth it for the quality improvements, and the chance to grumble over individual coach numbers.

Bob

[Bob G]

Crimbo Cream Maunsells have arrived. Very nice livery, and go nicely with an old Farish wooden Pullman to make up a boat train formation behind "Shrewsbury". Would be nice to have a Van C in Crimson (or even a Farish Bogie B) to finish it off. At the moment a Mk 1 BG will have to suffice.

Bob