Future models (N Gauge Locomotives)

[andy007]

I am very impressed that Dapol are giving us the luxury of suggesting new models. However, times are difficult and prices always rising ahead of wages (unless you are a banker)
We should try and suggest models where Dapol can use parts already produced in existing models. I agree that a SR EMU would be lovely and I suggest the Maunsell 4-COR/BUF which could use some of the parts already made for the Maunsell coaches, a revised but not new motor bogie could be used from say class 73 AND with just one new coach made a 4 COR could become a 4BUF
Also since the LBSCR Terrier is so small and has a small motor how about the little B4 Class steam loco that was used widely in Cornwall/Devon and of course Southampton Docks

[andy007]

Sorry I forgot carriages which of course I assume are much less expensive to produce than new locos: SDJR lined blue coaches (I guess very popular) GWR Toplight Stock and LMS Lined/panelled stock
It is the lining and printing that makes ready made coaches so popular and well received since this is the hardest part of making good carriages. Finally why not finish off the wonderful Colletts with a GWR dining car?

[Joel Dapol]

Hi Andy, all good suggestions and I like your `design clever' approach of using existing models as a base. The devaluation of the pound is certainly a headache for us at the moment and cost effective ideas are the answer for the short term anyway.

[Bob G]

I'm not sure coaches (or wagons for that matter) are significantly cheaper to produce. There has been a huge discussion on the NGF about the price of design, tooling costs, and labour, and I don't think there are many of us here that are experienced enough to have a valid opinion. I certainly don't. But I do know that in OO a 4-TC costs £289 for four unpowered coaches (with lights), and so the cost per linear foot is similar to a Rapido Pendolino, and probably not far off that for a full length Dapol HST.

[Dorsetmike]

I note a few mentions of SR 4-6-0s, so far the Southern is the only grouping company with no 4-6-0 locos by any manufacturer, the N15/King Arthur class was the most numerous, and the H15 and S15 were very similar, mainly driving wheel sizes. We now have Maunsell coaches, but only the only express loco to pull them for pre WW2 layouts is the Schools class (or a mogul from the opposition) The Nelson and N15X are the other better known SR 4-6-0s, the T14 is more of a problem, two major rebuilds altered the appearance considerably plus the valve gear being partly above the running plate and somewhat limited in location, mostly on Waterloo to Salisbury or Bournemouth lines. Methinks other Drummond 4-6-0s would not be viable, except maybe for modellers of the LSWR.

Spam cans are of no use on pre WW2 layouts

Variations of the N15 included the ex LSWR type cab or SR Maunsell cab, and tenders, most had the Urie/Maunsell 8 wheeler, some had the Drummond watercart (also 8 wheel) and a few had Ashford pattern 6 wheelers. (777 Sir Lamiel is preserved so that would be a start)

S15s also had the different cab types (and tender options depending on period and running numbers), H15s all had the LSWR style cab and Urie tenders apart from a few rebuilds of ex LSWR 4-6-0s which had different boilers and watercart tenders.

All the above lasted into nationalisation, so you have 4 livery options; some of the earlier ones were originally LSWR so a 5th livery is possible for those.

Another which is missing from SR types is the 0-6-0, (apart from Union Mills 700 and 0395) the Q class would be a good candidate.

A suggestion for another 0-4-4T would be the Adams T1 it could use the M7 chassis and driving wheels but with a shorter wheelbase bogie and different brake rods, I've managed to hack one from an M7 using an etched brass cab, bunker and side tanks.

I would buy any of the above but only in Maunsell olive, - (I hate Malachite) I model 1930s up to 1937 so Spam cans and Q1s are not on my wish list..

Smaller 4-4-0s are thin on the ground for all grouping companies (apart from Union Mills offerings) along with 0-6-0s they were the largest numbers of loco types well into nationalisation, ex LSWR 4-4-0 classes K10, L11, S11, L12 and D15 all lasted into nationalisation, if we move back from nationalisation to WW2 period we can add some of the Adams 4-4-0s and the A12 0-4-2, similarly ex SECR D, D1, E, E1, L, and L1, also ex LBSC classes, I'm not so familiar with SECR and LBSC types so apologise if I've missed some, I've also omitted ones done by UM

[southernrails]

I very much like the idea of the poll and thank you Dapol for the opportunity to make suggestions. Being an N scale modeller of Southern railways the introduction by Dapol of several southern locomotives has been very welcome. From a personal perspective it would be nice to see a Southern 4-6-0 from the Urie/Maunsell stable in the catalogue may I suggest a King Arthur class N15 which can also be used to create S15 and H15 variants. I am also looking forward to the arrival of West Country Battle of Britain locomotives

Also it would be nice to see an N scale version of the B4 which is in the OO catalogue.


Thank you for the variety of models that you have produced in N scale

Kind regards

David

[bathonian46]

Hello, folks! Sorry to be selfish, but I only model the South-East Div of BR Southern region, from c1955 to 1961!
Thus I would love the M7 to become transformed into an H Class 0-4-4T, and one of the old SE tender 4-4-0's - of any class which survived almost the end of Steam on that line (1960)
Diesels and electrics must be of original green, so I'm satisfied with what is about to come - Class 33, and someone else's Class 24. But I would certainly buy some of the original 6 Class 73/JA in green! (I wasn't really into N gauge when these came out via Modelzone a yonk and a half ago! Steam-wise, I also had a regular helping of King Arthurs and the forth-coming Bulleids.

In these somewhat uncertain times for producers/retailers and end-purchasers, I can't see any point in a producer trying to offer the world's largest catalogue range, nor duplication of good products from other manufacturers - duplications which are a serious improvement inaccuracy, detail, running reliability are worthwhile!

Richard

[gc4946]

Now that the classic pre-war valenced A4 is not far away, could Dapol entertain the possibility of introducing the streamlined B17 versions (two were modified) to broaden their class B17 range:

http://www.oocities.org/soho/2066/trains/anglian.html (2859 with valences)
http://dominionofcanada.tumblr.com/p...b17-this-photo (61659 (ex-2859) without valences)

[Joel Dapol]

A good idea, thank you.

[gc4946]

Further to my streamlined B17 suggestion, is it Dapol's future policy to use coreless loco-drive motors on all future steam loco releases, or will you continue to use the tender motor-shaft drive mechanism for those loco types which are powered by currently tooled-up tenders,

I'm thinking of a D49 Shire/Hunt 4-4-0, Gresley K3, K4 and Peppercorn K1 2-6-0s, all of which use the LNER motorised tender as produced in the B1 and B17.

[JeremiahBunyan]

Dapol have said in the BoB/WC thread that all future steam locos will be loco drive.

[SteveU]

Hopefully still with the fantastic gearing that makes crawl speed so smooth!

[Joel Dapol]

We are in the process of developing a new loco drive mechanism that will function better than our current steam offerings. Whether this has a coreless motor or a small traditional iron core derivative, we are still working on. We should have some news soon, but this will form the basis for future Dapol tender steam locomotives.

[southernrails]

I have noticed that the Adams radial tank seems to be a popular locomotive subject at the moment. Would this be a suitable subject for an N scale locomotive given that the original class consisted of 71 locomotives which started life in 1885 and some of which survived into BR ownership being withdrawn in 1961.

[JeremiahBunyan]

Almost 80 years of service...I'm pretty sure there's a market for that! Also I think one or two are still around today on a preserved railway or something like that?

[Jeff Eastmond]

The only remining one is LSWR no 488 (later 0488, KESR No.5, SR 3488, BR 30583) on the Bluebell Railway.

[JRS747]

Do you know what would be really nice, making models from the steam era that no one has made before. I get confused as to why RTR manufacturers produce something that another manufacturer has already made.

How about some Cab less steam engines, 2-2-2 mainline locos, Steam rail motors, or Clerestory coaches in N. I get worried that manufacturers are getting the models too highly detailed instead of giving a wider range of

This gets my vote, I am very envious of the models soon to be available to the 00 community. Anything x-2-x I will buy.

[RailGooner]

I model mainly (very) modern image, localized to the South West. I justify my Steam Locos (and anything else that doesn't fit that era/location,) as belonging to a fantasy Preservation Society or being a positioning move to/from a fantasy Open Day.

So the prototype I'd most like to see Dapol translate into N Gauge is the Metropolitan Bo-Bo #12 "Sarah Siddons". A subject that might appeal equally well to both modellers and collectors. Certainly ought to appeal to those (like me and my Father-in-Law) who bought Dapol's 2S-007-020 Class 57xx 0-6-0 Pannier L90 in London Transport livery.

[Bob G]

I would hate to be Dapol, trying to figure out what to produce next, given that most of the diesels are accounted for, apart from prototypes, small shunters, and type 1 designs. Electrics are also a difficult area given sales experience with the 86. There is more out there is steam outline, but again, potentially fewer sales as the buyers have favourite regions (and some are very specific about modelled eras too).

If I were to give my wish list, it would of course have a very southern flavour, but that is because most of the popular stuff has been done, and I would be asking for a class 71, 74, more first generation EMUs, DMUs and DEMUs.

For every time I see a request here for an exotic loco (i.e. anything not southern ) I think about their provenance and their attractiveness to the general buyer. That's why the Deltic prototype worked, and also the Blue Pullman.

So that's why I think of any loco that has not been done before, the LMS Twins 10000 and 10001 have to be a sure-fire winner. For a start you can buy two of them and run them double headed!
Iconic, the first main line diesels in the UK. They came in green as well as black, and were seen on the midland and also on the southern. Oh dear, you have seen why I want one now....

Please can we have them? They were mostly on the midland main line
Bob

[JR_P]

I think I may have briefly alluded to this previously, but I’ve now found the time to provide a detailed and compelling commercial case for the Electrostar family of EMU:

Since introduction these have, admittedly, been restricted to the South East, but that is all about to change.... so now is the time to commit to this EMU, as it should have a long ‘shelf-life’ and therefore offer the best odds of recovering the initial investment….

The principal body shell falls into one of two categories; plug door, or sliding pocket - I'd advocate plug door if you had to choose, as this covers more classes and liveries (and this is what my case is based upon; I’m ignoring the sliding door variant).

Minor details vary between classes beyond the door style, but the biggest visual difference is flush glazing (earlier) versus gasket glazing (later). I'd personally take a compromise on the later style (in the sense of a painted gasket, rather than moulded, if that was an impediment to production).

Head light clusters are another difference which could pose a problem; I think all of the newer classes of the Electrostar family have the same light cluster arrangement and it is only the 377/1s and 377/3s that have the three-light arrangement.

The 'bad news' aside, the good news is that the Electrostar family is now becoming increasingly widespread. Historically (so to speak) they have been operated by:

Southern (1 livery) – classes 377
Southeastern (2 liveries) – class 375
C2C (2 liveries) – I’m inclined not to include this as part of the argument, as the cab ends are different (ie. the same as the Turbostar, rather than Electrostar)

…. but more recent they have been joined by:
FCC (1 livery) – class 377
AGA (1 livery) – class 379

And now they are as above but also:
Gatwick Express – class 387
Great Northern (GTR) – class 387
GWR – class 387

There are three, four and five coach variations, depending upon the (sub-)class in the Southern livery, so that gives lots of scope for interesting multi-unit workings.

In short, Dapol could literally dominate the modern South East region with a single model; 'historically' found as far south west as Portsmouth Harbour and as far north as Milton Keynes Central.... and with the new Great Northern units, they will be on the ECML as far north as Peterborough and with GWR as far west as Reading (if not further) on the GWML.

Additionally, places like Cambridge and routes like the Great Northern route out of Kings Cross (via Hitchin), or West Anglia route out of Liverpool Street could be modelled relatively plausibly for the first time ever. The post-privatisation Brighton mainline could be modelled extremely comprehensively, along with just about anywhere on the southern 3rd rail network, that isn’t SWT territory.

Those of us who have RevolutioN Pendos (ordered) and Farish London-Midland 350s representing the southern portion of the WCML could justify a Southern 377 or two.

Also, those of us with fleets of Dapol’s FGW HST could soon justify running them under OHLE alongside GWR Electrostars.

The possibilities are quite extensive and very appealing :-)

…. so Dapol, there is my case….

[gc4946]

Of the plug-door sub-classes, some have conventional gasket-mounted glazing, others have ribbon glazing (similar to 170s)

The 375s and 377s have ribbon glazing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...C_377508_1.JPG
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...rn_377_122.JPG

However the 379s and 387s have gasket-mounted glazing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...hnal_Green.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Britis...shua_Brown.jpg
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/p...emu-order.html

It could mean two sets of bodies being tooled up to cater for the different glazing arrangements.

[JeremiahBunyan]

A nicely put suggestion...It's a pity someone hasn't liked it! But honestly it was very well put and detailed... I'm sure Dapol will consider it.

[emuman]

Very good post. the odd one out is the GW version is that to be 25,000 KV overhead only or is duel voltage. MH.

[Richard Dallimore]

Dorsetmike instead of commenting other peoples ideas please just make your own case. The caterpillars are all very different, so instead of commenting on others passion you should just make your own case.

[Dorsetmike]

I made my case re lack of a Southern 4-6-0 a while ago in a previous post, reading through this topic one gets the impression that diesels and EMUs are the only things worth bothering with, I contend this is not the only game in town, it would appear that the Schools has sold well, the Maunsell coaches in SR olive green seem to have sold out before the BR judging by what is still being shown as "In stock", so obviously there are SR modellers out there, but we have become so used to having to rely on kits, hacking or scratch building that we're getting fed up waiting.

[Andy Dapol]

Its not easy forcasting the shape of the hobby 2-3 years ahead. Views posted now, will influence the future, models available now were conceived over 3 years or more ago, regardless of manufacturer.
Inevitably there will be differing points of view and so we'd like to encourage everyone to state their case, and debate the subjects, whilst acknowledging the efforts and passion of other members.
Remember, The only daft ideas are those not expressed.

[JeremiahBunyan]

I agree with Richard, JR_P has put in a lot of effort into his post...

[Jeff Eastmond]

Another vote for a Southern 4-6-0 - would prefer a LN as both my Farish Standard 5s have been rebranded as 'Standard Arthurs'...

[David Durrance]

I think that the LMS Twins & Class 28 Co-Bo are the obvious omissions from the line-up of RTR N Gauge Diesel Locos. Powered & dummy versions of both please.

[JeremiahBunyan]

Which comment are you referring to? I can see all comments on this post...All 5 of them.

I'm pretty sure that a dummy loco is wanted by many. But at the end of the day you're pay a lot more for something that doesn't have a motor and lights in it. So literally the cost deducted is that of the motors and wiring for lighting etc. Sometimes I think the price you pay must match it's value and an unpowered one doesn't justify that. I'm happy that Dapol can see that.

PS: Unsure about any deleted posts, I can see all that I remember. Maybe a website issue because as I was typing this the website automatically logged me out twice. Hopefully Andy or Joel can look into this in their free time.

[newportnobby]

Sorry, Jeremiah, but I'm still getting used to this forum. Your comment #105.1 "Dummy versions aren't viable to produce any more" is still there but was hidden at the time I was reading. My argument still stands as a dyed in the wool DC operator. The discussion as to how the problem could be surmounted might be quite interesting.

[RailGooner]

How viable might it be, for those loco types already produced as dummies, to produce only a fully decorated and glazed body shell rather than a complete dummy chassis? I'm thinking diesels and electrics - class 66, class 86, etc. - were the body shell is a single piece.