N Gauge Class 50 Development

[Andy Dapol]

Sorry for pitching into this thread late but I have one thought.

Not at all Matt Pinto I'm actually please this is being discussed now, as [finally] the project is being dusted off. (Fact is that project delays to expected delivery dates of other models has a knock-on effect backdown the line, so this is perfect timing)
The CAD orientation does not show this the best, also these are the original CADs (little over 3 years old) which I inherited from my predecessor. There are a few changes now, but tumblehome was (until now) not one of them!
Currently the taper of the tumblehome is 0.6mm (so apx 3.5 inches in round numbers) I've attached a section to illustrate this better. (The lifting eyes are a good reference) Now, whether this is 100% correct or not is not something I'll swear to until I measure it, (which is something I'll now be sure to do) although I'm sure someone will comment on this in the interim.

I was actually due to visit the loco last weekend to do stuff such as this, but external circumstances prevented this from happening. It will be re-arranged however. After this I shall finalise the modifications and issue a fresh CAD.

[Ben A]

Hi Andy,

That cross section illustrates the point very well and, compared with the photo above, does not look to be too far off however I think if you can measure it that would give clarity once and for all.

On the previous page the point was made about the NEM socket protruding. I believe this is because the bogie is set nearer the end than with most diesels, and that once the NEM socket has been moved out enough to clear the power gear then it protrudes as currently designed.

This is an issue for other EE locos like the Farish Class 37s.

If the outer axle is left ungeared (ie unpowered) then I suspect the NEM coupler could be moved back so it does not protrude. This would significantly improve the appearance.

It would make the loco a Bo-Bo, but given the power of of most modern models I do not see that as a huge problem.

best

Ben A.

[RailGooner]

Sounds like the ideal solution with no compromises - a reduction of effective power is the only compromise I might have seen, but Ben's sage comments remove that one for me.

[JeremiahBunyan]

I agree with Ben's comments regarding the NEM coupling pocket!

[DavidInYork]

Worth noting that the 50 has identical bogies to the 37 and Deltics (apart from position of cab steps). Farish have dealt with it on the Deltics by making the NEM socket removable, and they also supplied a spare bogie frame so it's possible to completely cut off the mountings for the NEM socket if required and have a spare if it's ever required to put it back later. I don't have any 37s so not sure whether the same applies there.

[JR_P]

Dapol, here is something to consider - if you did 50017 Royal Oak in original NSE, then this would appeal to those modelling the NSE era, but equally, those us modelling modern image could justify it too, as it is currently mainline certified (and in original NSE).... just saying.... ;-)

PS: I think Ben A's suggestion is a clever compromise of achieving desired aesthetics versus raw power.

[JeremiahBunyan]

Another useful and great suggestion...

[higgscc]

Now I could be wrong (the perspectives on 3D CAD can be deceiving), but it looks like the taper on the bottom of the sides is just an angled section, whereas I think it should be a curved section. Certainlty measuring it again is essential.

[higgscc]

I would also check the profile of the upper side with the roof. Looking at prototype photos, this also looks less abrupt than it is in the CAD image, and begins to curve at about the bottom edge of that louvre that is partly in the side, partly in the lower roof

[Andy Dapol]

Hi higgscc, This area is a flat section between the drivers steps, the curve beginning at the drivers door. Both areas are represented in the model. This picture from Wikipedia illustrates this quite well. The same photo shows the transition from the roof curve to the side. The curve extends to apx 3 inches into the drivers door window (apx. level with the bottom louvre of the roof-side vent) this is not well executed in the current CADS and is one of a number of items that are being corrected.

[Simon James]

Hi Andy, Is there any update on when this might be tooled up yet?

[Hollem]

I suspect the cost may prove prohibitive, but is there any mileage in adding an unpowered (dummy) loco option to the planned class 50 range, as, especially with the unrefurbished class 50s, they often went about their business in pairs...?

[Joel Dapol]

We will look at the cost of the dummies as requested, but I fear they may be expensive.

[Bob G]

Hi Dapol
Is there any update we can get on this model?
Bob

[Joel Dapol]

Hi Bob, The CAD/CAM's are now complete and are being given the last check over before tooling commences.

[beeshill]

Hi Joel,

Great to hear the CAD/CAM's are complete now.
Has any thought been put in stone as to which loco, and which liveries will be offered first? ....and are you open to suggestions?

Steven

[RailGooner]

I believe that the first releases are:
2D-002-000 D406 in BR blue - unrefurbished
2D-002-001 50043 in BR blue - unrefurbished
2D-002-002 50040 "Leviathan" in BR large logo blue
2D-002-003 50037 "Illustrious" in original Network SouthEast livery

Suffix the stock number with 'D' for DCC fitted (i.e.: 2D-002-000D).

[beeshill]

Ah, thanks RailGooner, i missed that one

[JeremiahBunyan]

Any chance of us seeing the CAD work in it's latest form?

[Simon James]

Just wondering if tooling has commenced for the 50 yet?

[JeremiahBunyan]

I think an update (even if it is no progress made) must be put up....

[RailGooner]

'LIKE' JB's comment #27.1 which could be applied to almost all N projects. There seemed to be a lot of noise in Q4 last year, encouraging folk to sign-up for the Digest and Members Club - the dawn of a more interactive and communicative Dapol. Seems it was a false dawn as far as N is concerned.

[JeremiahBunyan]

Possibly the number of recent model train shows and re-livery announcements has kept them extra busy. LOL!

[Joel Dapol]

Our apologies, we have been extra busy for the last few weeks with shows, preparing for shows and more mundane business issues. We will address this lack of news in the next few days, so please be patient.

[JeremiahBunyan]

Thank you Joel

[Crepello]

I totally respect the decision to put the 50, the WC/BoB and the HST prototype into abeyance. It's a sure sign that Dapol is a properly run business. I voted to remain and I'm totally gutted by the referendum result but we have to live with it. I just hope that conditions will stabilise one day so investment decisions can be made with confidence.

[JeremiahBunyan]

Excellent positive viewpoint...I fully agree with your statement.

[Joel Dapol]

Thanks for the kind words and understanding. I genuinely believe the currency position will revert eventually and that's why we have not cancelled. Also by going ahead now and committing the largest chunk of expense at current exchange rates, we are effectively locking in a large part of this higher cost Moreover, If rates do improve then we may be disadvantaged. We are not alone in this dilemma and it is interesting to actually analyse how many traditional new N gauge products are being released at the moment. I think we are not too far behind in this respect. I think we just need to be patient, difficult I know :-)

[bluedepot]

hi dapol

I hope work on the class 50 resumes again soon as it's the major missing diesel up to modern standards left to be made in n gauge - and a very popular class of loco too.

i hope the exchange rates improve in your favour soon and this can get restarted!


tim

[mike]

I think that part of the problem with pre-sales is that both retailers and consumers want to have a clearer idea when models will arrive. Lack of deadlines and open timelines allows things to drift - I know from our own projects that as soon as we set deadlines projects that look difficult can be transformed! PS I hope that the 59 goes ahead in N (though I wouldn't be hopeful about GBP hitting $1.40 anytime soon).

[Scruff]

Thanks for the insight Joel and Mike.
For the first time in my life I'm taking an interest in currency markets... maybe it is just wishful thinking but the £ does seem to be on an upward trend.. Long may it continue!

[JR_P]

The exceptionally long lead times on new products (ie. new tooling, such as the class 142, rather than re-liveries) has meant that pre-ordering has really become obsolete. The problem is that the 'damage' was done over the past few years and I think modellers have lost faith in pre-ordering - I have; I now wait (im)patiently for a model to *actually* materialise before I buy it. Dapol's recent and refreshing honesty will help turn this around though.

If Dapol (and Bachmann) need to see strong pre-orders to commit to tooling, they should avoid announcing a product five years before it comes to fruition (external factors notwithstanding). Anyway, I'll probably buy a class 50, but not until it actually exists.... my point, therefore, is that despite poor pre-orders, you might find that you sell more than you imagine, once the product physically exists :-)

[LeftToMyOwnDevices]

I totally respect the decision to put the 50, the WC/BoB and the HST prototype into abeyance. It's a sure sign that Dapol is a properly run business. I voted to remain and I'm totally gutted by the referendum result but we have to live with it. I just hope that conditions will stabilise one day so investment decisions can be made with confidence.

That post also neatly, succinctly sums up my standpoint, as well.

It’s also the most rounded and considered point, so far, amongst all the ‘hysteria’ that broke out over Dapol’s original announcement.

Yes, I am upset too – more to do with the BoB: “Lord Dowding” that I was looking forward to – but I wouldn‘t say no to (another) Class 50.

My own comment, to those may still be “on the verge of hysteria”, is to say that companies (and successful ones, too) can go spectacularly bust through the phenomenon of ‘over-trading’. I am not a businessman, myself, but seem to recall it as part of my business-based degree, all those years ago…