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Revamp of [220/221] model fleet

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  • DavidInYork
    replied
    It's also worth noting of course that the 221 fleet is due to go from the WCML in a few years, so further model possibilities might occur then as regards livery, depending on where they end up. Likewise with the 222s.

    The XC franchise keeps getting extended, so that one's currently an unknown. The XC livery is not that of the parent company (Arriva), so it might stay under a future operator although of course that is currently an unknown. It appears to have been designed originally so that the base colour was the same as Virgin, meaning that the Voyagers could have their existing livery adapted fairly easily at that time. The XC Voyagers are actually in quite a tatty state these days, especially inside - they are beyond half-life and have nad no major refurbishment since new.

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  • Andy Dapol
    commented on 's reply
    No risk ​​​​​​​Adam and as a further plug: Your 'Meridian' does look close, especially when running I'd consider it to be OK. However, if we were to model it we would of course make the tooling changes etc.
    Given the amount of change within the existing fleet, we're sitting back and making notes, once its all set in stone we can look at the possibility of production in the future.

  • captainelectra
    replied
    The Class 222 would require four new coach types to be tooled, as there is a lot more variety in the design compared to the Voyager. This was cited as the reason for Bachmann dropping their planned version.

    At the risk of blatant self-promotion, Electra Rail does sets of vinyls to make a passable Meridian from a Voyager in all major liveries. :-)

    Currently, Super Voyager 221101 is in plain white livery with Avanti logos after losing the new Virgin livery. Believe the others have simply had the VT branding removed. There is a major refurbishment and overhaul planned, so a repaint may follow.

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  • DavidInYork
    replied
    Originally posted by chriswrightmk View Post
    The loss of Virgin Trains franchise suggest a new livery of new operator and the final Virgin livery.

    The option of the Midland Meridians could be explored but I am not sure what this entails.
    So far as I'm aware only one 221 ever received that 'final' Virgin livery. With this, and any subsequent liveries, the current Dapol/Farish models are incorrect in that they portray the original squared-off valances on either side of the coupler on the driving cars. All of the 220/221 fleets had these replaced with a curved design a few years ago.

    As regards the 222, it is similar in outline but has a lot of detail differences, so would quite likely require entirely new tooling.

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  • chriswrightmk
    replied
    The loss of Virgin Trains franchise suggest a new livery of new operator and the final Virgin livery.

    The option of the Midland Meridians could be explored but I am not sure what this entails.

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  • mike
    replied
    You can't put pin point axles on a 220 because the bogies are inside bearings (not a problem on the 221 which has different bogies).

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  • jacowin80
    replied
    Maybe rather than copying Farish, Dapol could run the 221 instead. After all these are the units that have been re liveried and are still working with Virgin. Rather than offering dummy sets would 5 car and 10 car sets be viable? To me the detail isn't an issue as long as the price is right. I could also see these selling well as a 'Train set' with an oval of kato (if marketed right!??). I for one know that I would have bought this when I started in N 3 years ago.

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  • chriswrightmk
    replied
    Voyagers have long been out of production and the new Virgin livery would be a good one.
    It would also be worth looking to see if the Midland and Stagecoach Meridian variation or Hull Trains Pioneer version (now with East Midlands and Stagecoach)is feasible using existing modified tooling

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  • Vonzack
    replied
    I'm not a fan of the Farish Voyager, by their standards it was a poor model mainly let down by the gearing and couplings they used, so to re-release it without any re-tooling is a very strange decision for me and I wonder if it will sell well.

    That being said, the Dapol 220 Voyager is another one to avoid, mainly because of the way the axles run in the bogies rather than having pin-point wheelsets. The 221 was transformed by having pin-point wheelsets and is/was a great model in my opinion, especially the versions with the Schafenberg couplers to allow the units to be run together. The power cars for the 220's and 221's are virtually identical and use the same motor which appears in many Dapol models, so there's no lack of power there, any performance issues were solely down to the rolling resistance with the different bogie designs.

    I wonder though if a model with no interiors is worth re-running in a market where detail appears to be king.



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  • jacowin80
    replied
    A new virgin (flowing silk) livery 221 would be a hit with me. By the looks of things the Farish model is just a re run with none or little improvements. I'm sure if the Dapol version had a stronger motor and upgraded electrics a Dapol model would be well received. The speed the current Farish releases are coming out i'm sure Dapol can beat Farish to the shops as well.

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  • PaulShanahanUK
    replied
    Andy Dapol Joel Dapol
    ​​​​​​​I see Farish have announced a new run, are there any plans from Dapol for launching a new run too or with the Farish Announcement, is this thought dead in the water?

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  • jacowin80
    commented on 's reply
    this would be much appreciated, even as a basic model, they really are getting quite rare and i'm sure would be a nice and easy earner for dapol.

  • JackD09
    replied
    Any news if these will be re launched as the new virgin trains white livery has just been applied to 221101.

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  • Vonzack
    replied
    Apologies if I'm going off on one, but when we consider dummy units, there's a distinction to be made. For this particular model the difference between a powered and non-powered unit, isn't the removal of the motor and drive train. What would have been the powered car is completely different, in fact it's identical to the non-powered coach and the assembly cost should be no more. All tooling required to produce a dummy model has been done to produce the powered versions, so there isn't even a cost implication in that. A dummy for this model is no more than an add on coach pack and these wouldn't retail for the same as a powered version. Even if we think about a possible re-tooled version which uses a single DCC Chip, the coach will have to pass power, so again this wouldn't cost any more to produce.

    Things do change if you consider some of the other dummies that have been produced such as the 66 / 67 / 86. These again share 95% of the components of the original powered models, but have bogies designed to take pin point axles. From what I can see, this is the only difference and it would increase the original tooling cost, if they were designed this way, or you could re-use allot of tooling to produce dummy loco's by just producing a new bogie tool. Some of these versions the 86s for example have lights and that means you're dealing with pickups etc. but the 66 and 67 versions were empty and again I don't think production of these models would take much time as you're just clipping a body shell to a chassis at the end of the day. A little more involved than a coach, but not much more.

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  • PaulShanahanUK
    replied
    Originally posted by mike View Post

    I'm not sure which part you think is a red herring, but I think Dapol have already mentioned it on this forum....;

    Cheers, Mike
    Thanks Mike, I as a consumer, certainly appreciate your response and explaination and am happy with this.

    So, it certainly sounds like confirmation (at least for Revolution Trains and I'll assume Dapol too) that production planning does indeed includes all variants (Dummy, Moterised, Liveries etc) and all the costs associated with that plan, apportioned over each unit. Therefore the only savings between dummy and motorised are units sans the montorised elements.

    Looking forward to seeing you guys at Warley!

    Many thanks, Paul

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