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HST: Scotrail (N Gauge)

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  • HST: Scotrail (N Gauge)

    I see some of the HST formations, somewhat shorter versions, are moving to Scotland. An OO version in the new livery was running at the SECC from pictures I have seen on line. I know Scottish stock is not as good a seller as some other regions, but it would be great if the livery could be considered, it would make a good box set. I'm hoping so !! As I said in another post, i feel compromise is often better than nothing at all.

  • #2
    Personally I'd prefer these as they are shorter formations. Cheaper to buy.
    Jeremiah Bunyan...

    Comment


    • Arthur Hodgett
      Arthur Hodgett commented
      Editing a comment
      Hi Joel, Great, my wishes don't always come so quickly. I had thought C&M might have done it as they did sell out of the 4 coach Scotrail pack and I believe their other Scotrail loco the 156 is also sold out as well.

    • JeremiahBunyan
      JeremiahBunyan commented
      Editing a comment
      Hi Arthur,

      What I meant by my comment was that the real ScotRail HST (as you have also stated) only has 4-5 coaches at the most. This is a huge contrast to other TOC's like Virgin Trains, FGW, VTEC, InterCity etc who all ran HST rakes with 7+ coaches. In model form running such an HST sometimes isn't possible on small layouts and/or buying that many coaches isn't always possible with those on a smaller budget. Therefore a prototypical smaller rake can be easily replicated in model form for those who want realism and accuracy or for those who just want a shorter HST rake. Remember these days coaches are costs over 20 quid per piece brand new. You can literally buy 4-5 coaches for the cost of one loco.

    • Arthur Hodgett
      Arthur Hodgett commented
      Editing a comment
      Hi Jeremiah, I understand now. I don't know Dapol's business model, but I remember a previous employee of Dapol saying that the class 86 model had hardly washed it's face, which I assume means had just managed to squeeze a return on it's investment. I had hoped the Mk3's would have achieved that by now and prices could be maintained, but maybe everything is ploughed back into new models, which I feel sure we would prefer.

  • #3
    100% behind a Scotrail Model.
    Can I put in a order for a couple now

    I would be Keen for matching mk3's even if they don't have the new powered doors.
    (I think this can also be applied to both Chiltern and Network Rail MK3's)

    I am enthusiastic enough about the power door HST's to cut up some MK3's up myself if need be (In fact a poor coach sitting on my work bench has already been subjected to having its doors removed and toilet windows filled in already)

    Really we need to wait for the real thing to appear in full before we start asking if you would consider power-door MK3's as, in addition to the standard 8 windowed coaches for SR/GWR/XC with all 4 doors converted, there are the TGS's being converted for XC/GWR which are not be having all doors converted and the SR/XC Buffet cars which may not be having all doors converted.

    Comment


    • Vonzack
      Vonzack commented
      Editing a comment
      +1 for the NMT Mk3s

  • #4
    As mentioned in the post above, the Scotrail HSTs have new power doors, and these do look quite different so Dapol's mk3 model isn't really close enough. The XC and shortened GW HSTs are getting the same doors. None have been released from Doncaster yet, but there are photos around they look fairly similar to do the doors in a 156 - they are recessed sliding doors, not swing-plug doors like the Chiltern ones, and they look very different to those.

    As regards doors not being done, my understanding is that the guard's door on the TGSs for GW / XC are being left as slam doors. Also the doors at the counter end end of the first class / catering vehicle in the Scotrail sets - these are being adapted from TFs. The Scotrail sets won't have a TGS.

    The XC catering vehicles have passenger accommodation at both ends - the small kitchen area is a couple of bays in, so I would expect the doors at both ends of them to be converted.

    It would be good to have a model of these Mk3s - I guess it depends whether Dapol consider it viable. As regards coach types, there will be the standard TS, a TS wih a disabled toilet (over-printing one window will probably deal with that - it's what they did with the existing Mk3 model where this applied), the TGS and the Scotrail catering vehicle - don't know what that one will look like, but if it's just a window or two plated over then over-printing is probably viable as on the existing Mk3 TCC model. So potentially only two different coach types needed; a standard one and a TGS. As things stand at the moment, there are no plans for any full catering vehicles (TRFB, etc) to be used, although that may change if other operators have sets modified.

    Comment


    • CaleyDave
      CaleyDave commented
      Editing a comment
      Found some pictures searching on flicker which back this up.
      The photographer thinks this is a Cross Country MK3 but fits the description of the ScotRail First Buffet coach with the plated windows and slam doors at one end.
      https://www.flickr.com/photos/cwarma...n/photostream/
      By the same photographer is a TGS in cross Country (albeit unbranded) miss labelled as a ScotRail MK3 with the Guards door still in place.
      https://www.flickr.com/photos/cwarma...n/photostream/

      The photographer also has pictures of the single Loco hauled MK3A Door prototype/demonstrator in De-branded Virgin if you look through the albums.
      Last edited by CaleyDave; 6 March 2018, 21:19. Reason: Added note on Prototype

    • DavidInYork
      DavidInYork commented
      Editing a comment
      That first photo is, as you say, clearly the Scotrail first class / catering vehicle - none of the XC coaches have that window arrangement. The testbed coach is 11028, which had been stored there for years.

  • #5
    Just travelled on the new scotrail HST today, These definitely need to be replicated in N, I would buy them even without coaches as a dummy and powered car with some ex - GWR coaches between.

    Comment


    • #6
      Let's all hope that this is something that Dapol look into, surely these units will be running for a few years yet and in a few liveries

      Comment


      • #7
        The first modified Crosscountry set (same doors as the Scotrail sets are getting) has been in service this week. The other XC sets will be getting the same modifications. GWR are also having some 4-car standard-class only sets for local services, with the possibility of a few longer sets to cater for increased summer demand in the SW. Whether any more follow for any other operators remains to be seen.

        So this might be enough of a market that it would be viable for Dapol to tool it up. There are a number of different coach variations, but most could be approximated by over-printing windows where the real ones have them plated, as has been done with previous models.

        It's certainly not like the Chiltern ones, where with only 4 sets and one livery it wouldn't be viable to do them accurately in model form.

        Comment


        • #8
          I think Scotrail HST power cars may be substitute for failed power cars of other TOCS serving Scotland so power car livery is feasible. Not sure if I read this has already happened once.

          Comment


          • #9
            Originally posted by chriswrightmk View Post
            I think Scotrail HST power cars may be substitute for failed power cars of other TOCS serving Scotland so power car livery is feasible. Not sure if I read this has already happened once.
            LNER have had one on loan. Within the next year the LNER HSTs are all due to be withdrawn, and the XC ones will move to be based in Plymouth rather than Edinburgh, so it's not something which is likely to happen for very long.

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            • #10
              Railway IIlustrated 12/18 has photo of Scotrail HST power car (43163) at York

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              • #11
                I see the Hornby HST is out in the splendid new Scotrail ivery -very impressive and will be around without modified coaches for a while as delivery delays continue. It is a splendid livery to consider. I also see NRM have taken delivery of their HST in blue/grey livery -Sir Kenneth Grange. Could consider just as power car packs?

                Comment


                • #12
                  Originally posted by chriswrightmk View Post
                  I also see NRM have taken delivery of their HST in blue/grey livery -Sir Kenneth Grange. Could consider just as power car packs?
                  I'm fairly sure that's not correct.

                  It is planned to go there in due course, but has not yet been handed over and although the NRM does expect to receive it at some point later in the year, they were not sure when that would be (when I asked them a week or two ago).

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    Todays Railways reported " 43002 joins the National Collection". Withdrawn by GWR on 1/6 and was displayed at Swindon 16/-18/7 and then moved to Ely pending move to York.

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      Originally posted by chriswrightmk View Post
                      Todays Railways reported " 43002 joins the National Collection". Withdrawn by GWR on 1/6 and was displayed at Swindon 16/-18/7 and then moved to Ely pending move to York.
                      As I say, I've asked the NRM and it has not yet been handed over to them (as you say, it's stored at Ely - with all the other off-lease Angel Trains HST stock) - so they have not "taken delivery of" it, as stated in your first post.. The NRM expects to receive it at some point later in the year and said they would publicise this when they had confirmation of when that would be.

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