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Class 33 with Lenz Decoder

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  • Class 33 with Lenz Decoder

    Fitted a Lenz Silver Mini that I had spare to my newly arrived Class 33, I don't get any lights working can anyone suggest a solution. I have tried changing the CV values 60 and 61 but that has had no effect, neither has changing the switch underneath. Any ideas?

  • #2
    Newleaf Hi, Have you tried that decoder in a different model?
    (As an alternative, put the blanking plug back in the Class 33 and test on DC, if you don't have DC then its OK (with this type of motor) to put it on your DCC track for a quick test. You will hear a buzz, and both White and Red lamps should light at both ends (assuming the switch is 'on'). If all the lamps light then the decoder is the issue.
    Regards
    Andy

    Dapol Staff Member

    Comment


    • #3
      Very grateful for the information, its good to know. However the loco has been checked by Rails of Sheffield who confirm that all is in order, and now the same problem has occurred with a new Fleischmann loco so the problem is with my Twin-Center system, maybe I need a power booster or something. Thanks very much for your help though.

      Comment


      • Andy Dapol
        Andy Dapol commented
        Editing a comment
        Hmm, good news/bad news. It could be that your twin centre is outputting too high a voltage. To check this accurately you would need an averaging multimeter (Also known as an RMS meter). Standard meters can produce inaccurate readings due to the DCC waveform.
        IMHO. I'm not sure purchasing a power booster would resolve this, unless it replaced the twin centre output as sole source of power on your layout.

    • #4
      I didn't realise that too high a voltage would cause lights not to work, and guess that explains my latest problem I bought a Schools class Repton, I programmed in the loco number and when I tried to move it, firstly it shot off at 200 mph, then when I pressed the emergency stop button and started at half speed it went off at what I would have thought was the correct seed, then it sped up and refused to comply with the controller to stop!!! Did this every time and I've now stopped and scratching my head. The class 33 didn't do that and my other 12 locos are OK!!! Bit Stumped!

      Comment


      • SteveU
        SteveU commented
        Editing a comment
        You could try resetting the decoder to factory settings just in case a CV has been written wrong and that is causing the issue - according to this page http://www.dccwiki.com/Decoder_reset#Lenz it is CV8 set to 33 resets all.

        The symptom of it running at high speed I have seen on other forums and some have said if you disable the DC running option in the decoder this may prevent it happening, basically if the decoder loses the DCC signal it reverts to DC on DCC operation and dependant on throttle setting may shoot off. You would have to check the Lenz manual for the DC/DCC CV to set.

        Swapping the decoder with another loco would determine if it is the chip though very quickly

    • #5
      I have been informed that to reset the decoders in Dapol locos, CV8 is set to "8", so I shall pop up in the loft later and try that. It is a pity that with the "Schools" loco there is not a leaflet giving all the CV values, I could use the Lenz CV guide, but that could make a nonsense of it because I'm not sure they are standard values for all decoders.
      I'm climbing the learning curve slowly.
      Thanks everyone for input.

      Comment


      • #6
        Tried everything to find a resolution, reset the decoder which made no difference neither did changing the CV value to run under DCC only. I can only assume its a faulty decoder so the model is going back, I could replace the decoder with one from another loco, but the more I fiddle, the more chance that I will do something that will mean it cannot be replaced!

        Comment


        • #7
          Originally posted by Newleaf View Post
          I have been informed that to reset the decoders in Dapol locos, CV8 is set to "8", so I shall pop up in the loft later and try that. It is a pity that with the "Schools" loco there is not a leaflet giving all the CV values, I could use the Lenz CV guide, but that could make a nonsense of it because I'm not sure they are standard values for all decoders.
          I'm climbing the learning curve slowly.
          Thanks everyone for input.
          As you said Lenz in the OP I assumed it was a Lenz Decoder - "reset the decoders in Dapol locos" it depends on what decoder is fitted, 'Dapol Locos' will not have a default setting unless they are factory fitted DCC (Gaugemaster DCC23 decoder ), not a Lenz one though.

          You are correct that some CVs will vary as not all decoders have all CVs available, which is why some cost more than others as they have more advanced functions available.

          The manual is THE most important bit of info you have, it will list the CVs and their function, writing a CV value to one decoder based on what someone has said is a good value may not work as not all CVs are the same function (it seems).

          From the below table you will see that the LENZ you set CV 8 to 33 - others you set to 8 or use another CV - so if DCC23 is CV8 to 8 then that will not reset a Dapol Loco with a Lenz decoder fitted if that all makes sense, the reset is the decoder not loco or loco manufacturer dependant unless it is their fit of decoder.

          This is from the NMRA standards...
          Manufacturer ID in CV8 CV for reset + value
          Lenz 99 CV8 = 33
          NCE 11 CV30 = 2
          Digitrax 12 CV8 = 8
          LokSound (ESU) 15 CV8 = 8
          Train Control System 153 CV8 = 8 or CV30 = 2
          SoundTraxx:
          DSDLC,
          DSXTsunami 1141 CV 30 = 2 CV8= 8
          MRC (New) 2143 CV125 = 1

          Hope this makes some sense...


          Comment


          • #8
            I had not realised this was a factory fitted model either, since you had mentioned fitting a Lenz decoder and also mentioned you had the same issue with other models. I would suggest a check of your twin centre, also depending on its age/software some of the early versions were not 100% DCC compatible. But having said that, I have not experienced many issues previously.
            FYI The factory fitted decoders are Gaugemaster DCC 23's.
            Regards
            Andy

            Dapol Staff Member

            Comment


            • SteveU
              SteveU commented
              Editing a comment
              Actually Andy re-reading the thread it started as a Class 33 and a lights issue under DCC with a Lenz decoder then changed a couple of posts later to a Schools Repton issue presumably with a factory fitted decoder :-/

          • #9
            OK cracked the Class 33 issue regarding the lighting and its all to do with the Fleischmann Twin-Center system. Thanks to Chris at A & H Models, Brackley who informs me that the default for the Twin-Center is for locos to run with 14 speed steps. I changed the system to recognise the Class 33 with 28 speed steps, and hey presto front display panel lights up on command. A huge step forward if you will excuse the pun, and will now change the Twin-Center default to 28..
            Yes I did change the blog to include a 'Schools' problem and yes it has a factory fitted chip which may be the problem. I didn't know about speed steps before returning the loco, but I guess I will get a call if it is discovered that there is nothing wrong with the loco!!
            Not exactly fun, but keeps the old brain working.

            Comment


            • Andy Dapol
              Andy Dapol commented
              Editing a comment
              Ah yes, that will do it! Gosh, I had almost forgotten about 14 speed steps, it used to cause lots of fun with LGB etc. some while ago!
              Glad it's all resolved now.

            • SteveU
              SteveU commented
              Editing a comment
              Good news!
              Have to say I favour LokPilot ESU decoders and set them to 128 speed steps, has great low speed control using the ESU Ecos. One other thing that the ESU decoder has is a sort of self calibration, you fit the decoder, set a cv value, press forwards (or something) the loco runs fast for just under a meter and the chip has a bunch of CVs set based on the 'data' it reads when the motor runs... no idea what it does but seems to do a good job of setting a decoder to provide smooth running across the range and the slow speed is phenomenal.

              Glad you sorted the issue of the 33, hopefully the Schools will follow.
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