GWR Prairie

[Miss Prism]

Another comment on the Mogul 3500g tender. As built, the brake hangars would have been of the 'twin strips' style. The later fabricated style was introduced in the middle Collett era. 5322's tender has had these later brake hangars retrofitted at some unknown date. My personal view is that the earlier form is likely to be a more typical representation for the range of prototypes you intend, but BR fans might wish to differ!

Apologies for the lateness of comment.

[steam69]

These were cast steel not fabricated and were probably fitted in late GWR days, as most people will want a model post war onwards I personally think this is the best choice.

[Miss Prism]

steam69 - thanks for the clarification of my sloppy misuse of 'fabricated'.

[LNER4468Fan]

Hope we get to see the updated CAD Sample soon.

[Richard Dapol]

I was hoping to have the final CAD before CNY but I needed to make some extra corrections so they should be available towards the end of the month, however I will post them here once I am happy.
Thanks one and all for the input we want to make this a must have product.
Kind Regards, Richard

[Miss Prism]

Richard - your initial sketch of the 3500g tender with two full-length pivot bars at the front (one for the brakes, the other for the scoop) was I think probably correct, so my apologies for my previous comments. I have been mislead by preserved examples, none of which seem to have working scoop gear (which is understandable!)

Subsequent edit:

I've now been in contact with Malcolm Mitchell, who has kindly provided this pic of the wayshafts below the platform of a 3500g tender, which shows the the full-width pivot bar or wayshaft at the bottom of the steps for the brakes, and the shorter shaft above it for the scoop. (This accords with the previous picture I notified post #14.)

http://www.gwr.org.uk/tenders/3500g-...-wayshafts.jpg

[gwrrob]

Any news on the new CADs on these please Richard ?

[gwrrob]

Any news on the new CADs on these please Richard ?

Bump........

[Joel Dapol]

The mogul design is very nearly complete and we will post something shortly.

[LNER4468Fan]

It's been some time, any news at all on the CAD?

[Richard Dapol]

Just to give an update on the Mogul CADs which are now at the final stage. I am happy with all the tender corrections, however the locomotive still requires a couple of details to be corrected, but I hope to post some jpg. next week.
Regards to all, Richard

[LNER4468Fan]

Will the steam heating pipe be added to the final CAD of the Large Prairie as well as the right bolier, also can't wait for the Mogul CAD.

[Richard Dapol]

Yes, I have only glanced at the prairie, will make corrections after the mogul is complete which will include the steam heat piping, and the correct boiler height, steam chest etc.
Regards,
Richard

[LNER4468Fan]

I'm definitely excited to get mine now, hoping the next 00 gauge annoucement will be non-corridor Collett Suburban Stock.

[The Duke 71000]

Prairies and Moguls - Forget the detail, what about the mechanisms ?

Judging by all the above posts I won't have to worry about detail on either a Prairie or hopefully the Mogul. Well done guys for spotting virtually everything including the, Ugh, infamous kitchen sink.

However what I'm much more concerned about is the mechanism, in particular the Mogul !!!

As I am building "Basingstoke 1958-67" in OO scale for a Railway Centre cum Museum, down here in Spain. The layout is BIG. 87ft x 23ft. So full size trains are de rigour. It will also be on public viewing three days a week. So the rolling stock is going to get well used......

The ex GWR 43xx 2-6-0's were in reality sturdy locos, that the operating department had no qualms about loading up to 12 cars. They were often seen on Summer Saturdays appearing at Basingstoke in my era, hauling either Western Region Birmingham to Portsmouth services, or Inter-regional (ex Midland or Eastern region) services through to Bournemouth. All these trains normally loaded to 9-12 coaches.

As ex GWR locomotives were fundamentally well designed, with very good steaming boilers. This has implications of a serious nature in model form. It basically means the ex GWR types had smaller boilers than most of the other railways equivilant counterparts. In the model this means LESS space inside for adhesive weight. In the 43xx Mogul this problem becomes more acute, as they were not large but often tasked, as mentioned, with heavy express trains.

The Moguls mechanism therefore becomes more important than in the similar sized Prairie. The tank loco does have the advantage of side tanks that can include more adhesive weight if necessary.

The problem is further complicated, because my layout also includes, Worting Junction and Battledown flyover. This of course introduces gradients. My first attempt to build this layout was defeated because too many British outline steam models would NOT haul real life loads up the real life 1 in 90 gradients. On the Mk2 layout under construction I have eased the gradients to 1 in 100, to help combat the problem.

The first 1 in 100 gradient was completed a year ago. It rises three inches over 300 inches (25ft) of length. I therefore immediately began testing my steam loco fleet, particulalry those types that hauled expresses, up the gradient. Many such as the Hornby Battle of Britain; West Country; Merchant Navies were only just powerful enough as bought. However they all have large powerful motors and a little space inside. So they have all received extra weight so that they can now haul 14-15 up the gradient. This means they should have no problems with 11-12.

The biggest problems are the ex GWR locos. Such as the Hornby Halls and Granges. As little space exists inside for extra weight, I have had to use every trick possible to improve their hill climbing abilities. One or two are still border line cases. (Larger ex GWR four cylinder types such as Kings and Castles were banned over Southern Metals).


Above: Click to enlarge. A Hornby Prairie on its Load Haul test on the 1 in 100 gradient from Worting Junction up to Lichfield tunnel. Here clearly revealing this model can haul 10 coaches. Will the new Dapol Prairie do better ??? In the background can be seen my scratchbuilt "Battledown Flyover". This was the state of play in May 2017. Scenery has now begun appearing at this point.

The promised Dapol Mogul's mechanism is therefore of some concern. It is not impossible to get such a model to haul real life (express) loads up a real life type 1 in 100 gradient of 25ft length. But like the Hornby Schools class 4-4-0 this might mean traction tyres are unavoidable. My Four "Schools" models happily scoot up my gradient with 13-14 coaches, without any alteration even though they only weigh between 276-284g !!!)

Another interesting model is the new Heljan 47xx 2-8-0, which I only bought (11/4/18) as a little Insurance. As I am not a 100% sure if any did appear at Basingstoke, although there was no restriction on them. This model reveals a quite ingenious method of mechanism construction. Basically a metal adhesive one piece weight is shaped to total fill the firebox, boiler and much of the smokebox. The motor is then fitted into a milled out slot. In other words you couldn't add another gram of weight internally if you wanted too. So the model weighs in at 410g out of the packet, making it the heaviest steam loco in my fleet, as bought. Although a 2-8-0 it is not as physically as big as a Merchant Navy. It's performance has so far revealed it walks away with 14 coaches on my gradient, although I haven't been able to complete its tests. The implication of this, is that it won't be an easy task to make the Dapol 43xx 2-6-0 pull what its real life counterpart was capable of ........


My normal Test train is made up from Bachmann Bulleid coaches with an average weight of 151g for each coach. Therefore 1.510Kg for 10 coaches or 1.812Kg for 12 coaches. These coaches were chosen because they are NOT the freeist of runners.


Above; Click to enlarge: Dapol "Western Legionaire" D1029 about to set off from the half built Hook station during its Load Haul tests. Note the scratchbuilt pointwork, as my MINIMUM radius is 5ft, to help reduce stresses on locomotives. Not that this beast had any problems hauling the 14 coaches seen attached, up the second 25ft long 1 in 100 gradient, completed last November. Which enters the Fiddle Yard just behind the camera to climb to the upper storage deck. There being 50 storage sidings in the Fiddle Yard, each long enough for a Dapol 43xx Mogul and 12 coaches.......


The Duke 71000

[LNER4468Fan]

It's almost the end of June & still nothing, hopfully we see something soon.

[The Duke 71000]

LNER4468F..
According to the Hattons website both the 4mm (OO scale) Prairie and Mogul are scheduled for arrival between January and March 2019. Hattons are already accepting pre-orders on all options, 21 Prairie variants and 18 Mogul variants listed. Hattons prices start at £135.96 on both models !!!

The Duke 71000

[LNER4468Fan]

LNER4468F..
According to the Hattons website both the 4mm (OO scale) Prairie and Mogul are scheduled for arrival between January and March 2019. Hattons are already accepting pre-orders on all options, 21 Prairie variants and 18 Mogul variants listed. Hattons prices start at £135.96 on both models !!!

The Duke 71000

The pre-orders have been up since the announcement, I was talking about there not being any updates on the DEVELOPMENT OF THE MODELS.