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LSWR B4 Livery Sheets

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  • #16
    Originally posted by adrianbs View Post
    Hi Folks Thank you for offering your help Jjeremiah although I assume Dapol have the Bradley and Cooper books and the one on the Bluebell B4. It would also be easy to check the exact size as both preserved B.4s have front and rear spectacle windows which I imagine are the originals and appear to be the same size as the full cab locos.
    The major problem with looking at the preserved locos is that both now exhibit different cab characteristics to those seen in British Railways service, so both have had new cab sheeting since withdraw and likely fitted when historical accuracy was not considered so important.

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    • #17
      Regarding the round cab windows I have checked the LSWR Engineering departments drawing number E9478 relating to a General Arrangement drawing of the K14/B4 which states the windows outside the bezel is 1'-4&9/16" diameter equating to 5.52mm in 4mm scale. I have measured our windows on the decorated samples and they are 5.40mm diameter so 0.12 mm smaller (0.004"). Lets hope this now clears up this discussion on window sizes.

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      • #18
        Hi Richard, Good to know I was correct !

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        • #19
          Adrian, are you really quibbling over 0.12mm or a scale circa a third of a inch? Given the limitations of materials and production processes, I think this sounds very good.

          Comment


          • JeremiahBunyan
            JeremiahBunyan commented
            Editing a comment
            Some people...! *Sigh* to many Mr. Perfects around

          • JeremiahBunyan
            JeremiahBunyan commented
            Editing a comment
            His apology borders on the "drama queen" type...he says he wants to be helpful but he can't word anything properly. Once again these know-it-all people!

        • #20
          Hi Folks I do apologise if I have hurt some peoples feelings, only doing my best to ensure an accurate model. I will now retire from the fray and wait till the models are released and see if the other anomalies are still present before posting further comments. Dapol are only too well aware what has happened in the past..

          Comment


          • Joel Dapol
            Joel Dapol commented
            Editing a comment
            No need to retire from the discussion (fray sounds a little adversarial), all we ask is that it is done in a friendly and constructive way. Out of interest what further anomalies are you referring to? It seems a little strange to me, to wait to see if the anomalies are present in the actual released version to comment, as this is past a point in which anything can be done to rectify. To some this may sound a little peevish and pointless, let us know what you think now please, but please bear in mind that some variants will have compromises due to the high cost of tooling and that not all detail variations can be accommodated.

        • #21
          Dear Joel If you really want to know if the details I suspect are wrong it would be necessary to see much better pictures of the pre-pro samples than have been currently available. If there are items you have already identified as erroneous they might as well be listed to save wasting time duplicating the information. I have already identified a few points but the lack of contrast and strange viewing angles makes some areas invisible, even when enlarged on the screen, because the lack of resolution does not help. I assume at the moment there may be some details not shown on the models. Whether they will be added or have been forgotten is a further area of uncertainty. I am more than well aware that the preserved examples are a minefield for the unwary having done research for my own kit some decades ago. Regards Adrian PS I am afraid I do not find the comments of some contributors conducive to helping, perhaps Mr Bunyan prefers his models inaccurate, there are many who seem to be like that.. A

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          • JeremiahBunyan
            JeremiahBunyan commented
            Editing a comment
            I accept models based on how sensible it is and based on little compromise.

            I realize that modelling trains is only a hobby, every variation cannot be made, some can with a little bit of a compromise and I find that acceptable.

            And when I have feedback to Dapol I try to be as polite as possible and trust me it works. What you lack is any form of politeness and an attitude of a "know-it-all" and it puts off a lot of people.

        • #22
          Hi Folks I just hope the livery samples shown on the Dapol website are not the finished tooling or livery. I suspect they are, and we will have to live with the errors or modify the models and repaint. They may well not be quite the final article but some errors, already mentioned, look like remaining. Over to you Mr Bunyan for your comments !!.

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          • #23
            Just seen the painted EP samples on the Kernow Model Rail Centre website...

            Errors or no errors, they look beautiful! I wonder if these will ever make it to N and O gauge.
            Jeremiah Bunyan...

            Comment


            • Joel Dapol
              Joel Dapol commented
              Editing a comment
              I wonder what the errors exactly are? The problem is that Adrian asserts himself so confidently , that the assumption is that he is always correct and we have found this is not necessarily the case (see his posted assertions on the livery choices on the previous page and this is not the only time his assertions have been found to be inaccurate). If his tone was less arrogant and condescending then this would work far better. Banning him was a tough decision but I would rather pay the price of the loss of his undoubted knowledge base for the politeness and respectfulness we want from this resource. Empathy and respectfulness is the key to yield the best results IMO not this sniping and constantly negative approach.

            • JeremiahBunyan
              JeremiahBunyan commented
              Editing a comment
              I'm glad he is banned, I was getting sick of his arrogant and condescending nature!

              I've said it before and I'll say it again, there's only so much we can do in an RTR model that is financially viable. If Adrian feels that a small compromise isn't good at all, he didn't have to buy the model. It's not like it's his money on the line. No one is forcing anyone to buy anything.

              Adrian's knowledge could've been so useful (I guess) if only he was polite about it and had a decent way of getting his points across. His basic wording is just plain wrong

              Thank you for getting rid of such a person, it's something that I wish other forums did often.

          • #24
            Hi

            As stated the deco samples are just that, deco samples. Richard has prescribed a number of changes and these are in hand at the factory. The deco samples have been to two shows so far (Swansea and Alsager) and will be on show at Warley in a few weeks time. I suspect that an N Gauge version would be very difficult to achieve and would not provide good running characteristics (especially in DC mode) I do however agree it would make a lovely O Gauge model.

            For the record adrianbs has been banned from the site for making nonconstructive comments in a derisory tone to other users - breaches of T&C's. I would like to thank those of you who have provided constructive feedback on our models whether in public or private comment.
            Regards
            Neil

            Dapol Staff Member

            Comment


            • JeremiahBunyan
              JeremiahBunyan commented
              Editing a comment
              Excellent! I Maybe an O gauge one will have a nice Dapol badge on it someday...

              Out of curiosity, DCC I know will be almost impossible in an N gauge B4, but a DC version with a full diecast metal body and chassis won't be enough to haul a few wagons? Maybe some form of magnetic adhesion? Just my thoughts (could do with some clarification)
              Last edited by JeremiahBunyan; 7 November 2017, 15:38.

          • #25
            These look great. I'm tempted to add the Southern sunshine lined version to the two I have on order. One thing though. Normandy's 'monocles' are blanked out in the sample. Will this be the case in the production version?

            Comment


            • Neil Dapol
              Neil Dapol commented
              Editing a comment
              Hi, I belive this to be a mistake made at the factory when pREparing the deco samples. Richard has already conveyed the necessary corrections to the factory.

            • KymN
              KymN commented
              Editing a comment
              Many thanks Neil. And I appreciate your quick response.

          • #26
            Hi, I’m well impressed with the samples for the B4s, lovely little machines and have some grunt too! I was lucky enough to have had many a firing and latterly driving turn on full size 96 at the Bluebell before she went out of traffic. Surprise surprise I have an as preserved 96 on order!
            this leads me to my query about the sample of 96 as preserved, will the production ones have the correct larger diameter buffer heads? The Hattons online ad for the decorated examples has pictures of the samples next to a picture of full size 96 and the difference was quite apparent.

            keep up the excellent work!!

            cheers
            Ben

            Comment


            • Richard Dapol
              Richard Dapol commented
              Editing a comment
              Hi Ben,

              Thank you for your interest in this model and your kind comments. It is possible that we may be able to make special diameter buffers for 96, do you happen to know the actual size so we can get some machined up.
              Thank you, Kind Regards,
              Richard

          • #27
            Hi Richard
            Thanks for the quick reply, I have looked further into the buffers thing and it seems they were changed to the larger sized ones domewhete between the late 30s and late 40s. I have a picture of 96 in sept 1936 with the small as built type and another picture dated “late 40s” showing the bigger ones. This also means that the Dapol model of 30096 should also have the larger buffers, I have found a picture proving this also.
            I am not about at Bluebell for a while however have asked friends if they can have a measure up for me.

            cheers
            Ben

            Comment


            • Richard Dapol
              Richard Dapol commented
              Editing a comment
              Hi Ben,
              Thank you for your help much appreciated and interesting that the buffers were changed so early on.
              Kind Regards,
              Richard

          • #28
            Hi Richard,
            No problem, sorry for being a pest!
            I have had word back from Sheffield Park and the buffer heads on 96 are 18” diameter.
            Do you have an Email address I can send the pics previously mentioned to? I tried to post the pics on here but failed miserably!

            Cheers
            Ben

            Comment


            • Richard Dapol
              Richard Dapol commented
              Editing a comment
              Hi Ben,
              Excellent, thankyou for the diameter,and you are not a pest.
              You can contact me at the following email: [email protected]
              Kind Regards,
              Richard

          • #29
            Thanks Richard, I have sent the pics to your email address

            Ben

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