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LSWR B4 Livery Sheets

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  • LSWR B4 Livery Sheets

    For your viewing pleasure and constructive comment
    Regards
    Neil

    Dapol Staff Member

  • #2
    SR Chocolate Brown loco looks absolutely lovely!
    Jeremiah Bunyan...

    Comment


    • Neil Dapol
      Neil Dapol commented
      Editing a comment
      They are all looking pretty nice to me! The EP ran very smoothly here at our base in Chirk and coped with pints well when it stretched its legs on a layout at the GCR model rail event last month.

    • JeremiahBunyan
      JeremiahBunyan commented
      Editing a comment
      Indeed they all do. I'd love to see one running sometime.

      I've got an eye for things with a bit of colour, hence why the SR Chocolate one caught my eye. Much like Hornby's Huntley and Palmer's Peckett.

      To me the blacks and greens are very much regular.

      I cannot wait to see a painted EP.

  • #3
    There seems to be a number of discrepancies between the appearance of the locos on the artwork charts and the full size locomotives. For example the cab front and back of 30096 do not match the real loco. Other anomalies also exist. Are corrections in hand as the EPs are not clear enough to see if they are right or wrong.

    Comment


    • #4
      Hi Adrian, Thanks for your post, not sure what you mean by 'the cab front and back of 30096 do not match the real loco', if you are referring to the artwork, I suggest you wait to see a decorated sample, artwork may not show all the fine details.

      Comment


      • #5
        Hi Richard, Perhaps if it had been possible to see what the EPs looked like in better detail. it would have been clear that the "fine detail" clearly shown on the artwork did not correspond to the tooling as far as the plating in of the cab cutouts is concerned. There are large numbers of pictures of 30096 in the late crest period and they all show the same details, quite different to the artwork, especially at the front which looks more like the design of the rear of other members in the class. The artwork of the rear corresponds to the design of No 97, the original twin of 96 but cannot be renumbered as it was sold in 1949.
        ...... I think you already know about the Filtrator of Caen being much taller but the smokebox door of 30089 should be a Drummond version not an Adams variant as per the artwork. Will No 88 have a fully snap rivetted smokebox as at that period I believe it was flush riveted as will be the collectors special I assume.

        Comment


        • #6
          Hi Adrian, As you know certain compromises are necessary to avoid too many exchangeable slides and inserts making a model not viable to produce. For the B4 tooling we can make most of the series, as follows:- 1. Original condition Adams with stove pipe chimney 2. Later K14 with Drummond boiler, different dome and safety valves with new whistle,and raised cab roof. 3. As used in Southampton docks, the Adams B4 now with Drummond chimney, cut away cabs and linseed filtrator where appropriate (normally the shorter type). 4. Early B.R. with Drummond chimney and covered in cab on numbers 30086,30093 and in Later B.R. period 30096. There are minor differences with the riveting etc. on the modified enclosed cabs , however it is not economically possible to create many different slides for these three versions. As you rightly say 97 was sold in 1949 to outside contractors, as were others with enclosed cabs including 81 and 95, so if you have any information on liveries for these I would be interested to hear.

          Comment


          • #7
            Hi Richard and Neil, As I am not privy to exactly what the tooling looks like so far on the EPs, it seemed logical to assume that the drawings shown by Neil accurately show the details that will appear on the models. If that is not the case it seems odd that some of the drawings show details peculiar to locos not planned. I believe that if 30093 is planned with a plated in cab it was near identical at the front to 30096. 30093 and 30086 were similar at the back but completely different to 30096. The drawing for the front of 30096 might be correct for 30086 but is not for 30096.
            ,,, Will spare filtrators be available for anyone wishing to do a cut and shut to make a taller version ?? Will the early period locos have flush riveted smokeboxes to obviate the need to remove the snap head rivets ??

            Comment


            • #8
              Hi Adrian, I have explained the position in my previous post regarding tooling changes, the livery sheets are posted to see if customers have any comments regarding colours, lining etc.

              Comment


              • IanS
                IanS commented
                Editing a comment
                Hi Richard,
                It would help if Adrian would explain what the heck he's going on about, but poking a few photos I can see that some engines at least appear to have had the back cab cut-outs on both sides featuring the lower 'bugle' in the cut out which on the hand brake side gives clearance for the brake handle. ie the cut-outs were not a smooth curved profile. (Note this is the cut-out, not the later semi-circular cover).
                It appears that this feature has not been replicated in preservation.

              • JeremiahBunyan
                JeremiahBunyan commented
                Editing a comment
                Adrian just needs to be patient and wait for EPs rather than go on rambling about artwork which is used only as a paint guide.

            • #9
              Originally posted by Neil Dapol View Post
              For your viewing pleasure and constructive comment
              Nice like the Southern for me :-D

              Comment


              • adrianbs
                adrianbs commented
                Editing a comment
                Hi to Ian S and J,Bunyan, There were 3 batches built of open cab B4s for the docks. Jersey(81) and Guernsey(176) of 1893 then Normandy (96) and Brittany(97) of 1893. But the last four 4 Havre (86), St Malo,(93) Honfleur (95) and Granville (102) of 1896 had shorter cranks to the brake x shaft from the handbrake. Not a lot of people know that !! This means the rear cab sheet was different for each batch. The last 4 had semi circular cutouts with a small cutout only on the RHS for the reversing lever. 96 and 97 were similar but with a cutout both sides, the LHS being for the Handbrake which was mounted further back. The first two locos had what I call quadrant cutouts which did not need additional cutouts. Ian is correct that Normandy is wrong in preservation as it only has the one small LHS cutout but when first plated in these cutouts were still visible although the LHS is largely hidden by the cowling for the handbrake. Brittany had the RHS as per the artwork for No 96. When we are allowed to see better pictures of the existing EPs for 96 it will be clear whether they are accurate to prototype or to artwork. It is difficult to understand why the artwork is for No 97's cab back when it is supposed to replicate No 96.
                Last edited by adrianbs; 5 August 2017, 16:05. Reason: Typo

            • #10
              Hi Neil, Has the livery for the collectors club model been finalised ?? Nos 87, 90 and 91 have been mentioned. At the moment the Dapol Website says No 91 but the most recent posts on the internet have mentioned No 87 in passenger livery, which would be Adams' pea green. If it is No 91 will it be Adams or Drummond livery??

              Comment


              • #11
                Hi Folks Well although I have not had a reply to my previous question it would appear that at the open day the collectors edition was unveiled as No 91. The livery is full Adams passenger pea green with oval numberplate between the S & W. I would like to know if there is any evidence for this livery on No 91 as the original volume by the RCTS written by D. L. Bradley does indicate the first 10 were so painted. However the updated and revised book by this author states quite clearly that ONLY Nos 85,86 and 87 received this livery whilst the photo of No 90 looks as if it is in photographic grey livery. It would appear that to be safe perhaps the locomotive should have been numbered as No 87 as was previously stated.

                Comment


                • #12
                  Hi Adrian,
                  I do have the book LSWR Locomotives by D.L.Bradley where he does state only 85-87 received the pea green livery, and the picture in B4 Dock Tanks by Peter Cooper of no.90 is rather washed out and hard to agree if this is in photographic grey as you state. I have a picture of 90 (attached) built in the second batch 11 months later in November 1892, so does look to be painted in Passenger Pea Green livery

                  Comment


                  • adrianbs
                    adrianbs commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Hi Richard, How intriguing that Bradley's original comments appear correct and yet 20 years later he altered the details. He has not always been infallible so we do have to assume that No 91 would have looked like No 90 with all the first ten in this style until their next works visit. Will the tooling permit the flush riveted smokebox wrapper and the early style of cab roof ?? Thanks for the picture which was probably taken at the same time as the Cooper one.

                • #13
                  Having been lucky enough to see these at the open day, I think that they look very fine indeed. I'm especially impressed with Normandy and how Richard and the design team have managed to get such a thin edge to the cab front and back plates when viewed side on. While I can't comment on the accuracy of the fine details of the liveries, they are incredibly well applied and, at the very least, the equal of anything else I've seen in 4mm scale.

                  Not my modelling scale, but really very well done Dapol on this one! Is there an N gauge version coming? (Tongue firmly in cheek)

                  Comment


                  • Joel Dapol
                    Joel Dapol commented
                    Editing a comment
                    No problem, over to you Richard :-)

                  • JeremiahBunyan
                    JeremiahBunyan commented
                    Editing a comment
                    +1 for an N gauge version. The "Caen Brown" livery

                  • Atso
                    Atso commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Jeremiah, to be honest I was joking as I'm sure that obtain adequate electrical pickup on a 0-4-0 would present some 'interesting' challenges in N gauge - making the body out of depleted uranium might work though....!

                    However, if Richard is willing to take up my light hearted (and not serious) challenge then, despite it not being my modelling area, I'd definitely be purchasing one!

                • #14
                  Hi Folks There is something amiss with the proportions of the spectacle windows on the non dock cab, they appear to be quite a lot too small as the pictures of the pre-pro stand at the moment. The top of the safety valve lever should be some way below the top of the window but at the moment seems to be at the same height. It tends to alter the proportions of the cab making it look too tall overall. Hopefully the cab height is accurate at least as it would be possible to enlarge the windows.

                  Comment


                  • Joel Dapol
                    Joel Dapol commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Can you provide some photos please to illustrate your point?

                  • JeremiahBunyan
                    JeremiahBunyan commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Wow..what a long post just to mention that the diameter of the windows on the model is smaller than the one in the prototype. Joel Dapol I will PM regarding the above mentioned issue with some images to illustrate the point.

                • #15
                  Hi Folks Thank you for offering your help Jjeremiah although I assume Dapol have the Bradley and Cooper books and the one on the Bluebell B4. It would also be easy to check the exact size as both preserved B.4s have front and rear spectacle windows which I imagine are the originals and appear to be the same size as the full cab locos. I can't see that they look to be different sizes, especially on 30102 with 3 at the front which all appear identical. It is unlikely the K14s had different windows and the GA shows the windows so the size is known.

                  Comment

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