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  • The Duke 71000
    commented on 's reply
    Jeremiah,
    Feve (Spanish metre gauge network in northern Spain) run a number of Bo-Bo metre gauge diesels under the title "Series 1900". I found a number of photos and info on Wikipedia, and a number of other posts (in English) by British train fans visiting the Feve system.

    The Duke 71000

  • JeremiahBunyan
    commented on 's reply
    You mentioned that there's a similar loco in larger numbers on Spain's MG network. Can you PM me some pics of it or tell me what the loco is called/classified?

  • The Duke 71000
    commented on 's reply
    Jeremiah
    Ah, well thankyou for that information. I asked some of the Museum members yesterday if they knew of any model of this type. They all replied in the negative, with one person going as far as to say "No one was likely to make a model of such a small class" ! I shall therefore check out the sources you mention.

    In reality I am actually more interested in trying to get British outline back into Spanish shops, as it seems it vanished around 20 years ago. The German ranges it seems simply jumped in and picked up the slack. The general consensus in Spain from potential customers, retailers and even wholesalers is that British outline is old fashioned, poor quality, and toy like. So viewers of my layout at the Lleida (last March) and Barcelona (early May) shows were extremely confused by the range and quality of British outline locos I was using.... Many were asking where I had got the products. When told I simply use a plastic card to buy from British shops, on the internet or by phone mail order. This method seemed to totally defeat them as if it was impossible for a Spaniard to do likewise, and ALL walked away clearly dissapointed !!!
    Last edited by The Duke 71000; 3 June 2018, 16:01.

  • JeremiahBunyan
    commented on 's reply
    Try the Hornby Forums...!

  • JeremiahBunyan
    commented on 's reply
    Try Electrotren (HO) or Arnold (Continental N) for such locos. Absolutely no point in Dapol spending their money and resources on a loco like this. Let's leave the Continental stuff to the Continental manufacturers.

  • The Duke 71000
    replied
    Modern Electro-Diesel variations ? Pictures continued from Post 16.

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    Above:A view looking across to the left hand side of the cab and the "Secondmans seat".

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    Above:After an hours shunting with the aid of our Museum 900hp diesel loco to remarshall the heritage vehicles. The 3 airbraked Container flats having been individually positioned one behind the loco, one in the middle of the train (seen closest), and the third at the rear. As the heritage vehicles only have a air brake through pipe and no brakes. The Monster ED has now backed onto the train and is about to pull forward back onto RENFE tracks where it will be able to switch back to the 3000v DC overhead supply.

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    Above: As this special Heritage vehicle train is limited to just 50Km/h (30mph) it is waiting to follow the EMU seen, onto the single line from Mora la Nova to Reus near the coast 25 miles away. The EMU is of a suburban type that most oddly operates a once daily (in each direction) Madrid to Barcelona all stations service that takes over 10 hours to complete. All other passenger services seen here at Mora are normally provided by Air-conditioned 100mph semi-fast EMU types with vending machines for snacks and drinks. Note the Signalbox in the left background which now forms the Museums Reception office, as signalling is now controlled from Zaragoza around 80 miles away.

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    Above: The Monstrous ED now slides out of the loop about 14.30hrs to begin its slow (30mph) journey over the single line section to Reus near the coast. Where it will then turn north up the coast to its destination in the Barcelona area. Could Dapol break into the Spanish market with a model of this beast ???

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    Above: The other loco used to marshall the "heritage train" was our own 900hp restored diesel nicknamed "Yay Yay". Here seen in the process of shunting this morning. With the Museum owner supposedly at the controls ! This loco although of US design was built in Spain by the British Company Babcock and Wilcox back in the 1960's. .

    The Museum is open weekends and Spanish holidays to visitors from 11.00am-14.00 and 17.00-19.30hrs and operated by volunteers. Its primary aim is to eventually operate mainline steam tours, as we also have a couple of large steam locos in our collection. Mora la Nova is 25 miles inland from Tarragona on the old mainline to Zaragoza. Or about 2hrs by train from Barcelona. 25 minutes by car from Reus airport, or 35 minutes by car from Tarragona, and the beaches.

    The Duke 71000

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  • The Duke 71000
    replied
    Modern Electro-Diesel variations ? How about this MONSTROUS (4,500/6,000hp) Electro-Diesel !

    Having driven Class 73 ED's when I was a BR driver, such locos are of some interest too me. And of course I already have a Dapol Class 73/1 in early BR blue for my exhibition layout "Basingstoke 1958-67".

    A little esoteric, but possibly Dapol would entertain making a model of this newer type of "ED". The accompanying photos are of a MONSTROUS Electro Diesel loco type operating in Spain. The first of which I had the privilege to examine today (Saturday 2nd June 2018) when I took all the photos seen. Incidentally I now work with the Museum here in Mora la Nova, so get to drive Broad Gauge (5ft 6in) gauge trains on ocassion....

    CLICK ON PHOTOS TO EXPAND

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    Above: The "MONSTER ELECTRO-DIESEL" (Class 601) in almost Southern Region green ! Here seen at Mora la Nova station this morning (2/6/18) having arrived at 03.00hrs. The loco had arrived to make a special movement of heritage vehicles from our Museum to a preservation group in the Barcelona area.

    This huge Co-Co wheel arrangement beast (Class 601) has the incredible output of 4,500hp on Diesel and 6,000hp on overhead Electric. The driver gave me a guided tour of the interior. Diesel power is provided by TWO V12 cylinder MTU diesel engines. Depending on requirements one or both of these diesel engines can be started to provide either 2,250hp or the full 4,500hp. Under the standard Spanish electrification of 3000v DC the loco obviously uses the 6000hp at its disposal, via one of the two pantographs carried.

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    Above: An angled shot revealing the modern looking design of this Monstrous Electro-Diesel type, while we waited for the Driver to get out of his Hotel bed.

    Only 6 of these Monstrous beasts have been built for the Spanish 5ft 6in Broad Gauge network. A slightly smaller Metre gauge variant exists in slightly greater numbers. One of which operates on a metre gauge system in the Barcelona area. The others all in Northern Spain on the very large metre gauge network along the North Spanish Bay of Biscay coast. These locomotives were it seems built at the behest of a private individual hoping to get into the spot hire market. However he went bankrupt in the process and the receivers sold all six of the Broad gauge locos to "COMSA" a Franchise freight haulier in Spain. These locos normally operate in and around the Basque region in the North, so to see one here in Southern Catalonia is rather unusual.

    The locomotive seen in the accompanying pictures, had been "hired" by a preservation group in the Barcelona area. Last October our Museum and the Barcelona group had jointly moved a number of Heritage vehicles "unwanted" by the Madrid Museum. All these vehicles reached us last October, although half were destined for the Barcelona group. Which we have cared for until they could arrange for onward movement which finally ocurred today. The "Monster" brought with it three 4 wheel airbraked container flats to increase Brake Force. As the Heritage vehicles have NO air brakes, only a "through pipe". The "Monster ED" locomotive in addition to air brakes also has "Rheostatic" brakes. Simply, this is an electric brake which feeds power into the traction motors in reverse to "retard" the trains progress, when the locomotive is coasting, especially on the many steep down gradients found in Spain. As Spain is the Second most mountainous country in Europe after Switzerland, and mountains will be seen in the background of one or two of my photos....

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    Above: A closer view of the cab after the locomotive had switched to Diesel power and moved forward into our Museum exchange sidings. Ugh Volunteers needed for weed clearance !

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    Above: The diesel engine end of the loco where TWO V12 cylinder MTU engines of 2,250hp EACH are crammed into a very tight compartment.

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    Above: An interior shot of the Drivers desk. Most but not all of the Broadgauge network drives on the right, so the driver is normnally positioned on the right for best sighting of signals. On the flat area of the drivers desk are two levers, left and right of centre. These are: Left the power and direction control. Right the train brake control. Further to the right another small lever pointing towards the camera is the locomotive brake handle, in the fully applied position. The red button (extreme left) is the Automatic Warning System acknowledment control. On the slanting panel are left to right: The radio telephone system. Train roster details (white paper). Speedometer (maximum speed 120km/h or 75mph). The small gauge below the speedometer is the diesel fuel gauge. The blue coloured panels are a diagnostics panel normally used for maintenance purposes. The Black screen to the right gives details of current diesel engine performance and or electric performance, wheel slippage and computerised control of such. Finally at the right hand end are two small gauges one above the other. The upper gauge shows the Train Brake Pipe pressure (red needle) and Main Reservoir pressure (yellow needle). The lower gauge shows the actual train pipe and Main reservoir situation on the locomotive bogies as these can be independantly controlled, from the rest of the train.

    More pictures below.
    Last edited by The Duke 71000; 3 June 2018, 03:52. Reason: Photo re-arrangement

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  • DRS Crewe On A Mission
    replied
    Originally posted by DavidInYork View Post
    Wouldn't have thought the RVEL ones would be worth your while financially - there are only two of them, both in the same livery, and they seem to have been problematic as they still aren't in regular use after several years.

    The GBRF ones are a much better bet - two liveries so far, and 11 locos. The GBRF-liveried ones are seen all over the SE on infrastructure work, and the Caledonian sleeper liveried ones cover a lot of miles in Scotland.
    I completely agree with this comment. I have just voted for the GBRF & Caledonian 73/9s. As has been mentioned above their are eleven of these locos which would make it more worthwhile to model. There are also two different liveries which are both popular. Whereas with the Network Rail 73s their are only two of them and they both wear the same livery. They also see little use at the moment.

    I wouldn't definitely have the five GBRF 73/9s and probably some Caledonian 73/9s in OO Gauge.

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  • DavidInYork
    replied
    Wouldn't have thought the RVEL ones would be worth your while financially - there are only two of them, both in the same livery, and they seem to have been problematic as they still aren't in regular use after several years.

    The GBRF ones are a much better bet - two liveries so far, and 11 locos. The GBRF-liveried ones are seen all over the SE on infrastructure work, and the Caledonian sleeper liveried ones cover a lot of miles in Scotland.

    Leave a comment:


  • Finsbury Park
    replied
    Originally posted by Matt Pinto View Post
    Looking at the photos below, it looks as if the shade of Rail blue used on the 73s was the same as used on other locos of the period. There is nothing to suggest they were consistently a different shade to other locos such as the Westerns.
    I can't imagine any reason why any Rail Blue loco would have been painted a different shade* to any other Rail Blue loco... the entire point of BR's Corporate Identity was uniformity.

    * Possible (very) minor differences between batches of paint aside.

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  • philiprporter
    replied
    I voted 73/9 which I'm hoping is the Caledonian sleeper class 73/9? I was lucky enough to have a look in the cab of one at Fort William recently and the midnight teal livery is beautiful hoping this is destined for n-gauge?

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  • Matt Pinto
    replied
    Originally posted by Joel Dapol View Post
    We are looking at the colours and will produce another BR Blue in the second batch, with an alternative shade. I know there are comments that the blue we used on the Western is the way to go, but to me this does not look right on the 73. Input on this would be appreciated.
    Colour reproduction is a notorious minefield. Some emultions and reproductions may suggest a certain shade of a colour while others suggest a different one. Add into that fading and weathering and you have a recipe for disagreement.

    Having said all that, I do feel that the shade of blue used on the 73s is not right, it just looks to warm to me. The shade of blue used on Westerns looked about right and I am sure if it was used on the 73s they would look fine. Whilst individual photos can be misleading, photos of 73s alongside other contemporary locos and stock are more useful. Looking at the photos below, it looks as if the shade of Rail blue used on the 73s was the same as used on other locos of the period. There is nothing to suggest they were consistently a different shade to other locos such as the Westerns.

    Based on that, I would be inclined to suggest that the same shade of Rail blue as used on the Westerns be better for the second batch.







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  • 37081lochlong
    replied
    Since my original comment i've stood my blue 52 at the side of a blue 73 in a shop and I have to say that the 52 looks spot on and made the 73 look worse, so i feel that if the colour seems to be very well accepted by the modelling world then i'd personally stick with that shade instead of changing it. Like Jeremiah says, a great looking blue on the 52 but a strange green/blue 22 & blue/purple 73 makes no sense from a single manufacturer.

    I didn't get a blue 22 or 73 because of the colour but I do have 2 blue 52's, so thats just one person choosing not to buy because of the colour shade and i'm no where near as picky as a lot of people, so how many others have not bought for the same reason? if you find a good blue, stick with that one!

    I'm still definitely more than interested in purchasing blue 73's and modern 73's but my purchases will be influenced by colours

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  • Andy Dapol
    replied
    @JeremiahBunyan We'll certainly post photos as and when we have anything to show and we agree with your standardisation suggestion; this is one reason for our adoption of international standard colour references (Pantone or RAL, they are the same worldwide).
    @47352 B&Qs gamut is only part of the RAL range, there are many more to choose from, such as the design collection. RAL is the European standard for paint colours, Pantone is the standard for printing. Using both as well in addition to BS colours allows us to specify the closet colour to our intent.

    Interestingly the arguments over BR Blue extends to preservation forums as well, quite interesting for a 'published' standard colour. I could write an essay on photographic colour reproduction, but won't (you'll be glad to hear ) Suffice to say that without the use of Photoshop I could post a dozen pictures which would show differing shades of the same model. Memory is also subject to colour-cast.

    Overall, as Joel says:
    we can encourage some positive and constructive criticism/feedback to ensure that what we produce is acceptable to most modellers.

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  • JeremiahBunyan
    replied
    Joel Dapol Andy Dapol Richard Dapol

    I've just read Joel's comments about the issues with BR blue. Even I personally feel that you'll nailed the shade on your Class 52 Western's. I'm not sure if it looks wrong or right. But do try to stick to that. As others have said one you standardize it, things will be better.

    If you'll still have samples please post them. Customers will be the best to give you feedback.

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