Liveries for the next production run of Class 73's

[Neil Dapol]

Class 73 liveries for the next production run listed below

E6004 - BR Green, SYP with Grey/Green sole Bar - 4D-006-010 (D/S)

73109 - NSE livery - "Battle of Britain" - 4D-006-011 (D/S)

73235 - SWT livery - 4D-006-012 (D/S)

73202- Southern Livery - 4D-006-013 (D/S)

E6002 BR Green, No YWP, Red Buffer beam - 4D-006-014

We would be interested in your thoughts and to know if anybody has photographs that will help generate the artwork.

Network South East Railway Society have very kindly offered their assistance in the development of 73109

[159220]

Is there any artwork to comment on? Certainly see myself ordering 3 out of the 5!
Would of preferred the SWT as 73109, but can see the NSE rendition is significantly more popular! I can easily re-number 73235 into 73109 and de-brand to operate in the GBRf fleet on Wessex Route Network Rail Infrastructure Monitoring work. Though can also see SWT 73235 being the Thunderbird locomotive whilst the Desiros were introduced! Decisions!

[Neil Dapol]

Currently in the data acquisition stage, I will post the various renditions of the art work as the become avalaible.

[gerry9253]

Will these have the same type of mechanism as the recent 33s?

Gerry

[Neil Dapol]

Hi Gerry, the 33 was an N Gauge loco, the 73's are in OO

[gerry9253]

Doh. Thanks Neil. I must get out more!

Gerry

[StevePT]

Hi, my first post here.
Can I ask whether there are plans to bring out an OO gauge 73 in the early electric blue livery as applied new to the small batch E6007 to (I think) E6017 in the mid 60s?
Regards, Steve

[Joel Dapol]

Hello Steve and welcome to the Digest. We did an an electric blue version as an exclusive for the Hobby Shop Faversham, and will not be releasing any in the next batch scheduled for next year. Batch 3 may see another though, especially if we get more requests for them.

[StevePT]

Hello Joel, thanks for your quick response. I think that was E6047 if I remember correctly but wasn't that a BR blue version rather than electric blue? It 's a long time since I saw these in the 1960s but I feel pretty sure that the early releases from Vulcan Foundry (E6007 onwards) were proper electric blue. Photographs are rare but suggest that E6007 to E6016 (at least) carried electric blue.
Here is the Lima example - https://www.google.pt/search?q=lima+...leH7caCfUAM%3A
Regards
Steve

[159220]

Hello

If I may, through another conversation today I found myself being less than satisfied with online information about the Class 73. And in seeing I either had to write something about pollen or procrastinate looking at trains I got myself onto a tangent and ended up at the UL (reasonable tea room). We have a depository library where I work and I think you might find some of what I read interesting.

I found myself Marsden, C. J. 1980. The power of the electro-diesels ISBN 0860930653. It states E6007-E6013 were delivered in 'BR 'old blue with a grey stripe along the sole bar with a grey roof from October 1965. E6014 onwards the grey stripe was omitted.

Now it is my understanding from reading the superb SEMG (http://www.semgonline.com/electric/class73_07.html), and what originally got me onto the tangent, that the first JBs were in a slightly darker shade of BR Electric Blue. Is this what is meant by Marsden (1980)? Seeing that by 1965 BR was changing to the corporate use of Monastral blue, there is a degree of conflicting discussion (certainly by 1970 it is reported all 73s were in the later and famous BR Blue). Gosh we think DRS likes to paint its locomotives, but the JB 73s appear to have received up to three liveries in five years! (Early blue with grey and small yellow panel, early blue with full height yellow panel and then BR blue). All variation in colour of course down to the individual paint mixer and breeze in the air (British Standard needs to be followed with a pinch of salt).

Thus it would appear the Faversham Model Shop limited edition stand correct E6007 with grey stripe (code FAV002) and without grey stripe (code 4D-006-005) as E6039 in the main Dapol Range. There is also a limited edition by Faversham Model Shop as E6047 in preservation at the Spa Valley painted in 2005.

http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/m...e6007_a600.jpg

(E6016 in BR electric blue with grey is a preservation livery only)

Looking on the library search, Marsden has a series of books which cover electro-diesel locomotives. I am sure others shall be along to make comment before, but I really must resist taking any more books on this matter until the weekend! Looking forward to the weekend!

[Joel Dapol]

Yes, that really is interesting and shows how something that on the face of it is straightforward, in the end is anything but.

[159220]

Indeed. Very interesting research though!

Now there is an account of running numbers, I do not agree with the suggestion of 'BR old blue' as photography in that book and on Flickr certainly shows 'BR Electric Blue' as per SEMG.

I want to have a look at Marsden, C. J. (2006). The electro-diesels : an illustrated history of Classes 73 and 74. but only available in the reading room (which is only a Monday-Friday operation). Thus if anyone has a copy and can confirm whether the assertion of BR 'old' blue is better defined - that would be super.

http://idiscover.lib.cam.ac.uk/primo...tab&lang=en_US

Really should just stick to my interest of the 73 in modern liveries!

Shall admit, the 73 JBs do look really neat in their original livery.

[Joel Dapol]

Here is a picture of our 6007 weathered.

[JeremiahBunyan]

Here is a picture of our 6007 weathered.

Looks beautiful. Excellent weathering job! Mercig or in-house efforts?

[Joel Dapol]

Thank you, weathering by Andy Small and very good it is too.

[JeremiahBunyan]

Outstanding job!

[Finsbury Park]

E6004 - BR Green, SYP with Grey/Green sole Bar - 4D-006-010 (D/S)

Please see the More Class 73/0 Liveries? thread for photo info and links for E6004. Note that the photos I have found of it in green with small yellow panels show it with the later style of large, round buffers - not oval ones.

Colour-Rail photo DE25 is a very good image of E6004 in this livery.

Three questions:
1. Are these models pristine or weathered? (The disadvantage of factory weathering is that you can't remove it, whereas the modeller can always add weathering to a pristine model).
2. What does 'D/S' mean? If it's digital sound, will these models be available without it?
3. Is there any chance of doing away with the novelty cab lighting? Even making it more prototypical by making it engine room lighting instead?

[Joel Dapol]

To answer your questions:
1. They will be supplied pristine. We may weather a few after delivery ourselves, but only a few made to demand.
2. The code with no suffix indicates DCC Ready i.e. fitted with a blanking pcb and ready for DC running or upgrade to DCC. D suffix after the code means DCC fitted (no sound) and an S suffix indicates sound and DCC fitted.
3. Cab lighting will be optional by being switchable in DC will be controllable in DCC on these new models.

I hope that helps

[StevePT]

Thanks to 159220 and all for helping to research this difficult livery issue. It's not quite reached the 'chromatic blue' levels of the class 52 Westerns but is still important point to finally resolve the matter.

I remember seeing the new JA & JB electro-diesels in action in the 1960s and at one time would easily have rattled off the locos that carried blue with grey solebar. Luckily my estimate of E6007 to E6016 wasn't too far off the mark by the sounds of it. Lima's choice of E6012 was therefore well researched if the correct list was indeed E6007 to E6013.

Images of this batch of 73s are not two a penny but I have enclosed a couple of pics to illustrate.
Firstly E6009 in 1966 forwarded to me by a friend and originally taken by a Mr R.Bowyer, whom I thank for pointing his camera away from the fast disappearing Bullieds for a moment.
And secondly a 1967 print of E6012 that I bought on ebay.

Reading the text from 159220 above again - have I missed the fact that an OO gauge E6007 has already been issued through Faversham Model Shop? Or is that a future issue?

Regards
Steve

[ben68009]

I think I may just have to buy some 73's following the announcement of 73149 and 73202! Question: Do you have any plans to do a re run of the GBRF 73's or will I have to scan ebay?

[Joel Dapol]

We have no plans for rerun GBRf variants just yet as they are still available both from our stockists (4D-006-007 Lisa) and via Olivia Trains which had two special commissions (jeanette and Charlotte) and still have stock. Hope that helps.

[Finsbury Park]

Reading the text from 159220 above again - have I missed the fact that an OO gauge E6007 has already been issued through Faversham Model Shop? Or is that a future issue?

It was produced last year for The Hobby Shop, Faversham,, catalogue number FAV002 and now sold out, I believe. Unfortunately with this model, as with all the first batch 'early' blue JBs, our friends at Dapol used the wrong style of numbers - they used the earlier style approporiate for the JAs, not Rail Alphabet, as was used on all JBs and illustrated in the above images.

As for the blue 'debate', I am really not convinced that this is anything more than the way that (a) the film stocks of the time and (b) our eyes interpret the colour. My belief is that they were all Rail Blue and the apparent 'difference' in colour is down to the way the film and our eyes interpreted it against the other colours in the image. It's very easy for authors to perpetuate myths if they believe them as 'facts' and to mis-remember details of the past. Marsden does fine picture books but has something of a reputation for this.

Try taking photos of the same colour against different coloured or pattened backgrounds - you'll be surprised at how much the same colour appears to our eyes to be different hues. Witness the infamous white/gold or blue/black dress illlusion of last year. Many more interesting examples are here... http://brainden.com/color-illusions.htm

[StevePT]

It was produced last year for The Hobby Shop, Faversham,, catalogue number FAV002 and now sold out, I believe. Unfortunately with this model, as with all the first batch 'early' blue JBs, our friends at Dapol used the wrong style of numbers - they used the earlier style approporiate for the JAs, not Rail Alphabet, as was used on all JBs and illustrated in the above images.

As for the blue 'debate', I am really not convinced that this is anything more than the way that (a) the film stocks of the time and (b) our eyes interpret the colour. My belief is that they were all Rail Blue and the apparent 'difference' in colour is down to the way the film and our eyes interpreted it against the other colours in the image. It's very easy for authors to perpetuate myths if they believe them as 'facts' and to mis-remember details of the past. Marsden does fine picture books but has something of a reputation for this.

Try taking photos of the same colour against different coloured or pattened backgrounds - you'll be surprised at how much the same colour appears to our eyes to be different hues. Witness the infamous white/gold or blue/black dress illlusion of last year. Many more interesting examples are here... http://brainden.com/color-illusions.htm

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Regarding livery myths remember that these early JBs (E6007-E6016) were released late 65 / early 66 when Electric Blue was by far the more prevelant blue livery seen on the railways. I saw all of the AL1-AL5 (E3001-E3100) electrics in the early 60s as I lived in Machester and also Iaw early JBs E6008 & E6012 at Stewarts Lane in Feb 65. By 1964 The XP 64 Brush D1733 was operating in the future BR Blue and when I was hauled by it from Swindon in August 1965 and I remember it being amazed at seeing a 'new' livery. Unfortunately the photo I took was black & white. With all due respect I have to say that I don't regard this class 73 livery as a myth.

[Finsbury Park]

You don't need to 'with all respect', Steve. We have a difference of opinion and that's fine by me. Unlike some of the characters you get on certain other model railway forums, just because you don't agree with me I'm not going to throw my toys out or stomp off in a huff :-) I think debate is a healthy thing.

But do bear in mind that human memory is renowned for being fallible. Many times I have remembered things which later research has proved happened in nothing like the way that I 'remembered'. Or that what I was remembering as one event was actually an amalgam of two or more different ones, sometimes in different places and at different time, which my mind had somehow merged. While debate rages over whether the early JBs were a different shade of blue, I'm certain that there is absolute agreement that they never carried the same 'Electric Blue' livery as the AC electrics. Whatever shade the JBs did carry, the shade worn by the AC electrics was significantly lighter.

[159220]

4D-006-010 (D/S) E6004 - BR Green, SYP with Grey/Green sole Bar
4D-006-011 (D/S) 73109 - NSE livery - "Battle of Britain"
4D-006-012 (D/S) 73235 - SWT livery
4D-006-013 (D/S) 73202- Southern Livery
4D-006-014 E6002 BR Green, No YWP, Red Buffer beam -

Shall 4D-006-010 to 014 become available to pre-order at retailers shortly? Been wanting to order a few of these!
I entrust the artwork is much developed?

[JeremiahBunyan]

Will this next batch of Class 73s have all the previous issues ironed out? i.e. colours, DCC board, lighting etc.

[JeremiahBunyan]

All they can do is complain...

[Joel Dapol]

Yes, the light etc. will work as they should do without cv changes. The liveries are in the main very different and we will post pictures here for comments. Hope that helps

[JeremiahBunyan]

Sounds great Joel, I hope this next batch of Class 73s are problem free, as you may see in the next post there's a certain member very eager to list problems so much so that he never read my post properly.

Personally feel that the Dapol Class 73 is an excellent model with an outstanding level of detail, however the first run was unfortunately marred by many errors.