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OO Class 59 E.P.

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  • JeremiahBunyan
    commented on 's reply
    I'll be okay with anything Andy, just a suggestion, I am not aware of the process but only heard of it. It will be superb if pulled off. But it must not affect the price much. I'm happy with moulded ones.

  • steadfast
    replied
    Over time I've managed to measure bits and pieces. There may be some small discrepancies due to being measured by one guy with a tape measure, but they are accurate enough to hopefully help people's assessments of things like windscreen proportions etc.

    Jo

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  • Andy Dapol
    commented on 's reply
    Chemical blackening is a possibility to be considered, but there is still the difficulties in fitting a 'waffle' into the body consistently and correctly. The profile will make this tricky as there is a natural springiness which will impart a curve to the etch. When viewed against the dark model interior, would the holes be viewable? I'm not discounting this entirely (it would be 'cool' if we could pull this off), but merely wondering if the end result would be so much different (without backlighting) to the plastic moulded version?
    Last edited by Andy Dapol; 2 August 2016, 18:53. Reason: Moulded, not mould!

  • JeremiahBunyan
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks for taking the time...You've been busy I can see as I got an email every 3 mins for the last half an hour notifying me about your posts. You deserve a rest Andy. However you are travelling and I hope you have pleasant trip.

    Again many thanks for the postings. Very helpful and very positive.

  • Andy Dapol
    replied
    I hope the comments I've posted above clarify some of the points raised. The purpose of producing and publicising the model at this stage is for further development and refinement. It's far from a 'what you see is what you get stage' Overall these are extremely useful for the review of the model. Once reviewed, I shall post a set of notes and further photos for debate.
    In the meantime, we welcome further comments and observations, whilst I will try to acknowledge and/ore discuss however, I am travelling for the next 10 days and there maybe a delay before I can respond, your patience is appreciated.

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  • JeremiahBunyan
    commented on 's reply
    Hi Andy,

    Personally I prefer the moulded grille, I totally forgot the set-up of the Class 59/66 grilles until it was mentioned here and I recall seeing an O gauge model done well. However you make a good point regarding paint clogging the holes. But I'm not sure so don't take my suggestion as gospel, but aren't there ways to chemically blacken metals?

    If that's a possiblity maybe you'll can consider it. Just a thought.

  • Andy Dapol
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks for the photos. I have parts for the variants, which I shall assemble in due course, aiming for this in about 10 days from today. (1st 3 weeks of this month are a bit busy)

  • Andy Dapol
    commented on 's reply
    Hi, yes I remember our chat.
    Yes, the bell is an option and there has been some assembly errors resulting in the issues with extra air pipes etc.
    Thanks for the detailed description of the cooler grills, the razor foil analogy perfectly describes the prototype. I do feel that we can do better with moulding than an etch, as we can certainly produce a very fine etch, but would loose the effect during painting unless the holes are over-scale.

  • Andy Dapol
    commented on 's reply
    Once more, wow a great list, thanks! We do appreciate the amount of time that goes into preparing feedback such as this and it's invaluable to us.
    Re: Dampers there were a number of iterations and we've catered for the main variations, i.e. single damper, dual dampers and with/without Yaw dampers.
    Many other points are valid and I shall act or comment accordingly.

    On the key features - Yes an NEM pocket is fitted, body mounted and on a close coupling mech, R2 curves are achievable.
    Lighting will be fully controllable (a-la class 68) with independent front & rear (switched for DC) cab lights etc.

  • Andy Dapol
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks for the additional information. At this stage nothing is final, it's common for minor issues with the moulds (tooling) to cause such issues and is the purpose of the 1st shot/EP (These really are first shots, rather than engineering prototypes, which come next) is to check for the overall fit and operation of parts. It's great to receive such detailed feedback.

  • Andy Dapol
    commented on 's reply
    All worthy comments; (see above for comment on grills and skirts).
    Re Bogies, something I shall look into. It will be a matter of proportions, so all will be checked during our assessment of the EP.
    Cables etc. are an interesting point, I will look into this area and see what can be improved.

  • Andy Dapol
    commented on 's reply
    Thanks for taking time to make your comments, all good stuff. As mentioned this is the time to resolve the issues.
    Re: 'slumping' this maybe in part due my light box floor having a hump in the middle! I will run a rule over the bogies and give this a thorough checking.
    The front cowling is removable and does have a slotted alternative version which allows the body mounted articulated close coupling NEM to swing through its travel, I hope that's eased your concerns a little.
    Pipes, yes, I agree.
    Body-side grills: The prototype has very small holes as this is not a grill as such, but part of the cooler. The 60 has a 'traditional' grill with large mesh, so lends itself to an etched part much better. We could produce a fine etch and press to profile, but the holes would clog when painted and there would be a fit-line where the etch joins the body, this would be quite delicate due to the profile. Overall we feel that a more realistic finish can be achieved by moulding. Further checks will confirm this and we will strive to replicate this feature as accurately as possible.
    Solebar handrails are specified, but not fitted to this sample.

  • Andy Dapol
    replied
    I shall respond in more detail individually a little later, but wished to acknowledge and thank all who have made comments so far It is much appreciated, we have such a wealth of knowledge here.
    I will comment on each posting shortly.
    Regarding the variations, I have a 'kit' of parts and body mouldings for each major sub-type on my desk which I need to check and assemble, and there will be more information that will expand on the brief posting I made, in a couple of weeks time (rather busy travel and meeting schedule in the interim)

    Leave a comment:


  • lyneux
    replied
    Andy,

    I've been looking at more photos on the plane on the way home.

    A) Ignore my point 8 about the lateral damper. They were fitted to the 59/1s shortly after delivery it seems (as pointed out by Jo).

    B) I'm not sure that the cooler group side grilles need to be an etch (as suggested by some) but it really ought to have the correct number of ribs! I agree with Jo: you can rarely see all the way through. From what I know about etching (having made a few myself), the etch would have to be so fine to represent the correct mesh pitch that it would be super-fragile. You'd have a hell of a time forming it into the right shape too.

    C) Regarding 159220's comment 6: "Down chassis support missing on prototype.". He is incorrect. You have got this right! I'll attach photographic proof.

    Finally, as a suggestion, perhaps you could split the photos into 59/0, 59/1 and 59/2? Since there are a host of detail differences on the sub-classes it would be good to understand which photo is supposed to represent which sub-class so that we don't make the wrong comments.

    Guy

    IMAGE 1: Cooler group grille (showing very fine mesh pitch):


    IMAGE 2: 59/1 showing triangular support is present at both ends of the chassis (point C above). Also of interest is the engine cowling lying on the ground. You can see just how prominent the seam is on the loco where this attaches.



    Link to shot showing cowling removed: https://www.flickr.com/photos/354760...7639746170234/
    Last edited by lyneux; 31 July 2016, 21:25.

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  • steadfast
    replied
    Hi Andy,
    I was talking to you at the NGS AGM about the N scale 59, liveries and wagon choices.
    First appearances look good overall, concur with what most of the comments so far have said regarding the small details that would really tidy things up.

    A couple of questions not raised so far:
    - Is there scope for 001 and 201 to be released with the bell fitted at the exhaust end?
    - Since others have asked about some small variations, in the EWS era all locos gained a GPS aerial above the windscreen at the cooler group end, is this variant covered?
    - The 59/2s have the air pipes in a different position (except 201) and have remnants on the buffer beam from when the buckeyes were fitted in National Power days - I guess this is what the holes in the lower fairing are for? If so 001-104 don't need it.
    - Are you doing both styles of exhaust? The current style with the exhaust exiting to the single grill side is the most long lived if not.

    Regarding the comments on the cooler group side grills, the real thing is a mesh rather like an electric razor foil, arranged in a zigzag pattern which I guess if made as an etch would be rather fragile. There's a walkway behind this, and then the cooler group itself. You can only see through it when the shutters on this are open and only when you look through at a view perpendicular to the loco. From most angles you cannot see daylight through the grills, unlike a class 60 where everything is open behind it. There seems to be a trend these days for fitting an etch whether it gives a better quality finish or not, just to add "etched grills" to a feature list, but on the 59s the grills are surely better represented solid plastic?

    On the 59/0 tool, the circular holes in the bufferbeam aren't quite right. Please see my attached pics. At the exhaust end there's one hole on the second man's side and a pair under the driver's side.
    At the cooler group end this is reversed. 59005 just has the single hole at each end. Also, the marker and tail lights should both be the same diameter. The tail light (upper hole) looks about the right size.

    Hope this is useful and I look forward to seeing the N models progress

    Jo

    Attached Files

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