OO Class 68 Opening post:

[Andy Dapol Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Andy Dapol]

This model has now completed its testing phase with well over 300hrs running (and still going!). Decorations and corrections are completed and we are waiting on the improved 2nd decorated samples.
As can be seen from the photos of the first samples [attached], the DRS livery is proving a challenge, we're not happy with the current result, and despite some advanced printing equipment being used there is room for improvement.
There are many improvements to the Chiltern version; the Scotrail and DRS liveries exhibit these incrementally, with detail such as underframe decal positioning and additions of bogie serial number plates etc. We still have black windscreen lining and additional tweaks which will be evident in the next samples, (an example of the feedback process can be seen in photo 4). The numbering on the cab doors seems 'stuck' as a Roman font, this is also one of the corrections noted.
We are of course frustrated by these issues as inevitably they create delays out of proportion to the size and length of time the correction actually takes to implement, (such is the continuous machine that is China, where every minute is scheduled). The good news is that we are using the time to progress with next years releases.

[159220 Member Find all posts View Profile Close 159220]

Firstly I want to say what a wonderful idea this digest forum is. I cannot think of any other manufacturer in model railways who has allowed the customers right into the centre of the design, manufacturing and post purchase action. I wish all the very best luck for the success of this initiative and if it helps us get the models to a standard which simply amazes customers, more shall surely come!

Now the most glaring item to check is your camera, as I think you have photographed an actual Class 68 rather than the model! What a marvelous model, the livery truly does highlight how detailed and spot perfect the model is to the prototype. Wish I could pre-order more!

I cannot comment much on Scot Rail, part from it feels a little 'not blue enough' - but I shall fully admit this might be more from my paint mixing skills (or lack of) than actually not being blue. (Before asked, Precision Phoenix Mainline Blue mixed 50:50 with First Group Blue.)

If I understand your posting correctly, the Chiltern livery was the first sample, and comments made on that have 'evolved' into the DRS Evolution livery?

I do hate to be particular, but as you have invited feedback I can indulge myself a little.

On the Chiltern. I would say:

- The grey strip below the silver should be lower, below the grills.
- Ideally the AC units need to be silver too.
- The lighting needs to be infilled with black.
- The 'surround' around the cab window on the door should be a square black box below the window.
- There should not be a nameplate on the tooling on the Chiltern example.
- Cab numbers need to be white and a more appropriate font.
- I suspect the grills have been painted black, as in silver it might work at 1:1 scale but does not at OO? But they should be silver.

On Both the Chiltern and DRS

- The 'groving' running below the cab windows down to the buffers could ideally be infilled with black, as on the prototype this is infilled with black rubber.
- What would be neat and seeing it is possible with the other great painting details would be for the bogies to have their plate numbers on both bogies. (even more exciting detail would be 68026-32 with Stadler plates!)
- I see the metalic effect on the hand bars looks very fragile as some has in places already 'flaked' off.
- Main window would benefit from having a black trim around them. As looks too plastic currently.
- Really like the exhaust, does the deep hole suggest smoke?

On the DRS

- Am I right, do I see the compass map on the white compass? If so, wow!
- The green fade is (I am sure fairly obviously) too green. The white needs to dominate more and the blue come through more. The only position it is truly green on the prototypes is in the centre right around the white compass. With the green fading (from top to bottom of the model). Top fade from the top down. Middle fade from the bottom up and the bottom fade from the top down. Also importantly it ideally needs to be centred on the model.
- Cab end numbers on the doors are still the wrong font.
- The nameplate silver lining is too bold and the nameplate appears too large.

Though if honest, I would buy it as is, but I look forward to being even more impressed with the next sample from the factory. The 68 must be on course to be model of the year! (Perhaps decade)

And how about a little challenge?!

I see on the lower corner of the cab window, the green fade looks awfully like how a carbon fibre look would look like. Seeing as on the DRS prototypes the black is actually painted to give a carbon fibre look. If the second deco samples have not yet been produced, the factory can be challlanged to re-create the carbon fibre look around the black on the cabs?

What would be super cool, is if the black running numbers also had the carbon fibre look as per the prototypes.

I really hope this is what has been meant as constructive feedback?

I am overwhelmed by how open Dapol are being with the development and to most these are already wonderful model, to read you are not happy with the detail on the livery as is, is certain to impress on final delivery.

Really looking forward to these models!

How long before sample two (if made) and production?

One last question! Is it true? Shall the lights produce the halo effect?

[Andy Dapol Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Andy Dapol]

Hi 159220, Gosh! you have been busy! Best if I work though one by one - just a minute, I'll put the kettle on 1^st ...
OK, that's better

Firstly heartfelt thanks for taking the time to work through the models in detail, it's much appreciated, and you have spotted a couple of points which evaded us. There are reasons for some issues, mainly due to the hand made nature of the samples, I've attempted to explain this where applicable.
Please keep this up, it's at this stage when we can correct minor detail changes in the paint finish etc.

On the Chiltern. I would say:-
The grey strip below the silver should be lower, below the grills.
- Ideally the AC units need to be silver too.
- The lighting needs to be infilled with black.
- The 'surround' around the cab window on the door should be a square black box below the window.
- There should not be a nameplate on the tooling on the Chiltern example.
- Cab numbers need to be white and a more appropriate font.
- I suspect the grills have been painted black, as in silver it might work at 1:1 scale but does not at OO? But they should be silver.

Thanks for the above. The Chiltern sample show was our 1st sample all the above have been noted and will be shown in the next sample. (Samples will be produced once the 'bugs' are worked out in all versions).

On Both the Chiltern and DRS:
- The 'groving' running below the cab windows down to the buffers could ideally be infilled with black, as on the prototype this is infilled with black rubber.
- What would be neat and seeing it is possible with the other great painting details would be for the bogies to have their plate numbers on both bogies. (even more exciting detail would be 68026-32 with Stadler plates!)
- I see the metalic effect on the hand bars looks very fragile as some has in places already 'flaked' off.
- Main window would benefit from having a black trim around them. As looks too plastic currently.
- Really like the exhaust, does the deep hole suggest smoke?

The majority of these have been noted here, exceptions being the black infill in the front 'groove'.
The handrails are made from a plastic called Polyoxymethylene (POM) it has the advantage of being robust (by means of being flexible) and is specially suited to being injected into fine details such as the handrails. Problem is it tends to reject glues and paints. In production, the material is treated before painting to improve paint adhesion - this process will not have been applied to the samples, so wear tends to show.
Sorry, no smoke for the class 68 (though I'm sure some modellers will soon resolve that!)

On the DRS:
- Am I right, do I see the compass map on the white compass? If so, wow!
- The green fade is (I am sure fairly obviously) too green. The white needs to dominate more and the blue come through more. The only position it is truly green on the prototypes is in the centre right around the white compass. With the green fading (from top to bottom of the model). Top fade from the top down. Middle fade from the bottom up and the bottom fade from the top down. Also importantly it ideally needs to be centred on the model.
- Cab end numbers on the doors are still the wrong font.
- The nameplate silver lining is too bold and the nameplate appears too large.

Yes, the map is printed and readable! We have noted the issues with the fades. In fact this sample was produced to illustrate the specific challenges in printing, by doing this its enabed us to work with the factory to improve the end result. Much better than a photo. The logo has proven tricky, hence the incurred delay in production, but we are just about there now - a new sample will be produced in the near future. (Actually for all models)

Font issues are particularly subtle. Artwork produced here sometimes does not get translated by the software (especially if the text been left as a font in the drawing, rather than converted to a vector image) and is substituted (usually with Times Roman!). It's something we sort of expect and again has been noted.
The nameplate is printed but will be replaced with etched plates for production. Additionally the 'Bezel' will not be present on production models.

Thanks for your time. I look forward to posting the next set of photos!

[159220 Member Find all posts View Profile Close 159220]

Sorry! I did get a little carried away! But you did say constructive and well I am delighted that I spotted some things which have escaped. Only if I was as good at spotting wally.

'Bugs worked out on the other samples' are we to see a level of livery application which even shows the summer bugs on the warning yellow!?

thank you for addressing my questions too, looking forward to sample two, when they are right as of course, better to keep trying until perfection is reached and customers are delighted. Very honest of Dapol showing these samples if they are more of an 'experiment' with the challenges for all to learn from. Including me!

Ah the old vector image issue with non-Mac users!

Challenge accepted for for the carbon fibre look on the cabs and loco number?

Happily comment more in the future if it helps, I cannot think of any other manafacturer giving its customers the chance to contribute to the process.

Again, thank you for allowing comments to be made, looking very forward to the 68s!

[centraltrains Just starting out here Find all posts View Profile Close centraltrains]

We are of course frustrated by these issues as inevitably they create delays out of proportion to the size and length of time the correction actually takes to implement, (such is the continuous machine that is China, where every minute is scheduled). The good news is that we are using the time to progress with next years releases.

So the current date hattons are advertising and June/July is going to be missed?
Any idea on the new ETA. Getting very impatient!

[Cameron Moir]

Makes two of us. Been put back plus the price increase been on pre order since I heard about it

[Cameron Moir Just starting out here Find all posts View Profile Close Cameron Moir]

Maybe for Christmas then.😭😭😭😭😭

[Andy Dapol Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Andy Dapol]

We too are disappointed by the delays, all estimated dates were/accurate at the time we issue them, but issues such as I explained above does have a huge impact on overall timescales. At this moment we are working on moving production forward this depends on several factors. As soon as we get further samples, dates and news it will be posted here first.

[Cameron Moir]

Like said before. Like a small child waiting for santa to arrive. Hopefully he comes early

[JeremiahBunyan Regular contributor Find all posts View Profile Close JeremiahBunyan]

Finally getting to see that splendid DRS one. I'm sure you'll will do the needful in terms of corrections. Eagerly awaiting further EPs.

[JeremiahBunyan Regular contributor Find all posts View Profile Close JeremiahBunyan]

Firstly I want to say what a wonderful idea this digest forum is. I cannot think of any other manufacturer in model railways who has allowed the customers right into the centre of the design, manufacturing and post purchase action.

Hornby...they offer an insight into what you mentioned via their blog "The Engine Shed". Similarly the discussions go on on the Hornby Forums. Hats off the Dapol. I have utmost respect for these two brands who have faced tough times and are really reaching out and turning things around slowly.

One last question! Is it true? Shall the lights produce the halo effect?

Yes.

[Scottish-Exile Just starting out here Find all posts View Profile Close Scottish-Exile]

Email from Hattons today advising that my pre-order 68's, are now expected between October-December. Oh well, gives me more time to save up and hopefully add the DRS one too

Love the detail on this blog of what the finished model will be like. Talk about raising the bar

[37081lochlong Just starting out here Find all posts View Profile Close 37081lochlong]

I'm disappointed in the delay but understand the reasons and if it makes for a better model then i'm more than happy to wait modern printing techniques seem to be improving weekly so hopefully the DRS & Scotrail ones will have stunning printing

[NP59201 Just starting out here Find all posts View Profile Close NP59201]

My wallet is happy for the pennies to re-group. The only question now is that I was going to be happy just going for one of the Scotrail Class 68's, but now I am tempted by the fine detailed Compass Map which will appear on the DRS Livered version. At least I do not need to rush yet as DRS are ordering plenty more Class 68's which I will hopefully see some from next year hauling Loco hauled trains on the ECML to Newcastle with Northern Trains, and possibly Scarborough. I just hope they lose there way and start coming down the Hull to Scarborough line or across the Hull to Liverpool route!

[ben68009 Just starting out here Find all posts View Profile Close ben68009]

The DRS is looking ace, two things though,
Has the halo effect been replicated?
Will they be around for Warley so I can get a second?

Great model guys and as you can see its much demanded

[Joel Dapol]

They should be in shops by November and as Jeremiah says, we have recreated the halo effect.

[JeremiahBunyan Regular contributor Find all posts View Profile Close JeremiahBunyan]

Has the halo effect been replicated?

See my reply in post #9

[Andy Dapol Administrator Find all posts View Profile Close Andy Dapol]

Here's a photo of the Halo lights operating although it doesn't really do full justice due to the extremes of relative brightness :