Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Decorated Samples (Class 122)

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Decorated Samples (Class 122)

    1st look at the decorated samples of the forthcoming class 122s.
    These are hand built samples for decoration purposes, so will not be to production standards. There is some tweaking of colours and exhaust styles which will be performed during the next few days.
    I shall post some more detailed photos of each model during the next week, but in the meantime I have included a close-up of the Regional railways datapanel and rear quarter as an example.
    Regards
    Andy

    Dapol Staff Member

  • #2
    A good jumping off point, just need as you say to tweak a few in each, data panel looks the part even in this "cruel enlargement"

    Comment


    • #3
      Wow, those look lovely...For all those who unnecessarily bashed Dapol, here's a Dapol Class 122 that will give anything similar of Bachmann's a run for their money!!
      Jeremiah Bunyan...

      Comment


      • #4
        Looking good there Andy.

        Two detail points which I hope will help:

        1. The plain blue model should not have a high intensity headlight. These didn't come in until the 1990s, after the units were painted blue & grey. It might not even be right for blue/grey, photos will confirm.

        2. Please remember that the electric tail lamps (strictly speaking red bulbs added to the white marker light housings) were only added in the 1980s, before then all first generation DMMUs had to carry a separate (paraffin) tail lamp. I understand why, for ease of manufacture, you would want to include bi-colour LEDs on all models, but on the green and plain blue versions please make the red at least manually 'turn on and offable'.

        Hope these help...
        Last edited by Finsbury Park; 28 October 2016, 09:53.

        Comment


        • Andy Dapol
          Andy Dapol commented
          Editing a comment
          Thanks for pointing this out, its good to have a double check on this.
          But don't panic about the headlamps, all variations have been tooled for; as has been mentioned within other threads (N gauge 33 and Class 68) these are deco samples not production samples, so unless there is a major difference in the body that affects the decoration, they are produced from one mould which saves a lot of time exchanging and setting up tooling, for one 'shot'.

          Likewise the early versions will not have red illuminated rear lamps (N.B. all lighting is individually controllable under DCC, and switchable for DC users on all models as well)

        • Finsbury Park
          Finsbury Park commented
          Editing a comment
          Many thanks for the explanation, Andy. As well as being reassured about the attention to detail, it's interesting to hear about aspects of the production and approvals process that we don't often hear about. Now we all need to hope that the pound doesn't devalue any further!

      • #5
        Blue Grey 122s definitely received the headlight in the early 1990s. Pretty sure none had them in 1989 or before however. Incidentally these headlights came in several years before on most locos and DMUs but the 122s seemed to

        https://www.flickr.com/photos/neil_h...s/29722765712/

        As far as I'm aware the only all-blue 122 to get a headlight in BR service was/is TDB975023 which is a Hatton's limited edition.

        Comment


        • #6
          Hopefully a DTS will show from the designs to hand in the future -but not too far into it !!

          Comment


          • Finsbury Park
            Finsbury Park commented
            Editing a comment
            Definite thumbs up for that in green!

            Any more pics of the 121/122 to whet the appetite yet, please?

        • #7
          Some further individual photos of the models.
          Please note they are 1st decorated samples and physical details such as headlights may not be correct per the production version.
          There are a number of changes that will be made such as painting of handrails, registration of applied detail and some tweaks in colours where they do not match specifications etc. Additionally the white painted steps shown on the green versions will be deleted. We hope these photos give a good indication of the models to date.
          I anticipate we will be able to update during late December regarding delivery dates which at this time are anticipated to be 1st quarter 2017.
          Last edited by Andy Dapol; 15 November 2016, 15:24.
          Regards
          Andy

          Dapol Staff Member

          Comment


          • Finsbury Park
            Finsbury Park commented
            Editing a comment
            Sigh... my wallet hates you! Looking very nice. Such closeups can be cruel, making things that are tiny in real life look huge, but my only (very, very minor) concern is that the lamp brackets on the 'whiskers' version look a little overscale, although that could just be the effect of the red paint clashing with the green. In the 'tiny physical details which, as you have explained, will no doubt be changed anyway' category, different alphanumerical headcodes on each of the green versions and the correct typeface on the destination blinds would be the last tiny bit of icing on the cake.My intention was to limit myself to one green 122... but both look brilliant! Good job, Dapol.

          • Finsbury Park
            Finsbury Park commented
            Editing a comment
            Out of interest are the 121 and 122s running in parallel, or is the 122 being done first?

          • Andy Dapol
            Andy Dapol commented
            Editing a comment
            Finsbury Park. Well spotted Sir!
            One of the amendments is that the lamp brackets will be reduced in width to 0.65mm (just about 50% of the existing width).
            The 121's will follow on afterwards, I am finalising the decorations at the moment.

            We intend to offer a set of transfers for headcodes and destination blinds. It will always be a compromise as to which destinations, but a far lesser one than factory printing.
            On that subject, can anyone name the font used for the destination blinds? (as far as I can see it varies as it appears to be stretched or compressed to fit available space, but the base font would be extremely useful). I have created a font (since I could not find any reference to the actual font used) for the 2-digit headcodes which as far as I can discover were A-C and 0-4? Again, please post further detail if anyone has it?

        • #8
          Simply marvelous Andy! They really look beautiful.
          Jeremiah Bunyan...

          Comment


          • #9
            Is the lining on the green version somewhat over scale?

            Comment


            • Andy Dapol
              Andy Dapol commented
              Editing a comment
              I don't believe so, but happy to be corrected.
              The lining varied between classes and even between the 121 & 122's. On the reference photos I have used (the best is the cover of First Generation DMUs by Kevin Robertson) it appears the lower line starts at the top of the door handle escutcheon and extends to just below the pivot point of the handle, i.e. it does not quite cover the bottom of the escutcheon). The top line is the same width on the 122 (although it is slimmer on class 121s). We have reproduced the same scaling on the model.
              I'd be happy to revise this if you have some better period photos showing side-on (square) views of the lining?

          • #10
            Further to my comment above, we want to supply decals for the headcodes and destination blinds rather than factory printing them onto the models.
            However I am having a few issues despite having looked at a lot of photos and various websites including railcar.co.uk which is extremely informative!
            May I appeal for information and, if possible actual photos

            The specific issues for headcodes are:
            1. I cannot find any reference to the font used for the 2 digit headcodes, so have created one for this purpose
            2. I believe that the headcodes are 1-4 and A-C only?

            And for destination blinds:
            1. Again, I cannot find any reference for the name of the font originally used.
            2. I believe the font was stretched/compressed in order to suit the available space.

            I have included screenshots of the 2-digit headcode and the destination blinds (both are works in progress, but time presses​​) If I can appeal for comments for each if anyone has any knowledge in this area? All assistance gratefully received.
            Regards
            Andy

            Dapol Staff Member

            Comment


            • Finsbury Park
              Finsbury Park commented
              Editing a comment
              Andy... Welcome to the minefield! I'll try and be succinct... The typefaces used for pre-blue era headcodes and destination blinds were bespoke BR designs, which have never been commercially available typefaces. It was only later on that Rail Alphabet started to be used for some destination blinds, but it was never used for two or four character headcodes. Two character headcodes are a big subject in themselves, with many different varieties and typefaces (SR, ScR Blue Trains, Broad Street-Watford EMUs, first generation DMMUs... to name just four). However, focusing solely on the subject of the 122's two character headcodes, there seems to be comparatively little info out there. I have consulted the various headcode 'bibles' I've gathered over the years and couldn't come up with anything definitive. Other classes of first gen DMMU had blinds with numbers that went up to 9 and I'm pretty sure the letters X (inter-regional special) and Z (special within region), but I can't definitively say whether this was true for the 122s

            • Finsbury Park
              Finsbury Park commented
              Editing a comment
              Incidentally, I'm pretty sure the 1 would not have had the serif as per your Illustrator drawing, but am happy to be corrected if you have photographs that show otherwise. (As a side issue, it would be good if you could take a look at the Class 73 headcodss before the new batch is manufactured. It looks like you've used an 'as near as' commercial typeface, because the 1, 3, 8 and 9 are some way off from the correct style).

            • Andy Dapol
              Andy Dapol commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks for your comments FP. As you state, there is a great deal of difference between WR and SR 2 digit codes. Much has been written on 4 digits, some on SR 2 digit, but WR 2 digit codes are defiantly a gap in the market. I'm sure much will be written on them when we place the model on sale!

              Regarding the X and Z this sounds interesting I shall see what can be found.
              The photos I have of 122s do show the serif on the '1'. An interesting thing is that these headcodes (and the destination blinds) appear unique to each class even where one may expect a cross over (e.g. I have photos of 123s and 125s etc. without the serif).

              (I have drawn the class 73s project managers attention to the font used and we hope to improve this next time around)

          • #11
            Time to get this headcode thing back onto an even keel I think. The Gloucester cars started to be delivered in 1958 and therefore the 2 headcode blinds were in accordance with the practice and train classification of that time.

            The initial Instruction, dating from 1957, which applied to them stated that the train classification should be shown accompanied by a route number - I have never seen any information about single digit route numbers and it is possible they never actually existed, there are certainly none listed in the May 1960 London Division Appendix. And in any case a revised Instruction issued in September 1959 stated only that the train classification should be shown and the second blind should be left blank (and no code should be displayed at the rear of the train).

            As passenger trains the cars - very logically - could only run as Class A, B, or C and those were the only letters that could be displayed; regrettably I don't don't how many numerals were available but in effect that only mattered, if it actually ever mattered at all, between 1958 and September 1959.

            From 01 October 1960 the WR went over to numeric train classification and from then onwards irrespective of whatever numbers might, or might not, have been on the blinds the only ones the cars could display would be either 1, 2, or 3 and the Instruction was that no letter was to be exhibited and the first panel was to be left blank.

            I can in fact recall seeing cars carrying 'B2' and I suspect that this actually reflected the changeover from alpha to numeric classification rather than any idea of a route number as the new classifications began to appear in WR working timetables prior to the October official changeover date.

            Whether the blinds were altered at a later date I really don't know but I doubt they ever were as there was not really any necessity for it as the 2 digit display could never have shown a full train headcode.

            Comment


            • Andy Dapol
              Andy Dapol commented
              Editing a comment
              Thanks for this. So in summary, headcodes are pretty much as per the samples I posted? I shall add a blank white panel with black frame. The substrate will be white but the line will suggest the blind is still in place.
              Any comments on Destination blinds or fonts would still be extremely useful, since this does seem to be an area not covered too well in terms of documented fact.

          • #12
            I know they'll be ready when they're ready, but does anyone happen to know when the 121s are due for production?

            Comment


            • Joel Dapol
              Joel Dapol commented
              Editing a comment
              Hi Jack, around 3 months after the class 122, so should be around May/June would be our best estimate. We should have the livery samples soon. I hope that helps

            • Jack
              Jack commented
              Editing a comment
              Hi Joel. Sorry for late reply - never realised you'd commented! That's excellent news. Look forward to it.

          • #13
            How about bringing one out in o gauge

            Comment


            • Joel Dapol
              Joel Dapol commented
              Editing a comment
              Great idea and it was on the radar but unfortunately Heljan have beaten us to it with the Class 121 and surely a Cl 122 will follow?

          • #14
            I appreciate this thread is really about the 122s, but I can't help noticing the photos on Hattons' site of the pre-production models, and that (not sure if it applies to other ones too) the 121032 in ATW livery model has a window missing at the end! The narrow window to the left of the far right cab door in this photo - 4D-009-HAT02_1506418_Qty1_cat1.jpg - should have another by its side making it 2 windows. Is this something that's been addressed?

            Comment


            • JeremiahBunyan
              JeremiahBunyan commented
              Editing a comment
              Is it something specific to only the ATW Class 121s? Or was it a general feature on some Class 121s?

            • Jack
              Jack commented
              Editing a comment
              I believe it might be a feature on the modern 121s such as the Chiltern ones too. Not sure however.

            • JeremiahBunyan
              JeremiahBunyan commented
              Editing a comment
              Then hopefully one of the Dapol staff can tell us if there's provisions in the tooling for such.

          • #15
            Got in touch with Hattons regarding this missing window, and this is their reply.

            Originally posted by Hattons Dave
            It has been confirmed by Dapol that the extra window is not in the tooling therefore the bodies will appear exactly as they do in the images. There are still some livery issues to sort but the extra window is something we cannot change I'm afraid.
            Not the best situation really, especially considering Dapol/Hattons have invested a lot of time and money into the project.

            Would I be right in thinking that this is not being addressed as the standard releases won't have this and therefore it would be something Hattons would have to sort out (or rather, won't)?

            Comment

            Working...
            X